What is this spoon and server for?

Discussion in 'Metalware' started by TheBearKiss, Aug 13, 2024.

  1. DragonflyWink

    DragonflyWink Well-Known Member


    That information simply may not be available - contrary to popular belief, not every item appears online or in reference materials. I suggested the origin of this piece is likely French, and mentioned where marks might be found to confirm - the mark you've shown would be the maker's mark for the blade and wouldn't necessarily be the same maker as the handle. The silver maker's mark (in a diamond shape) appears to be visible here at left in a very fuzzy image, the quality marks should be present as well:

    french-butter-knife-OP-possible-marks (1).jpg

    https://www.925-1000.com/Ffrench_marks.html

    I believe it is most likely an eccentric butter knife (they often have a lip at the back), probably from an hors d'oeuvre set (there were numerous different forms), and do have vague memory of seeing very similar before, but I've been buying, selling, collecting and researching silver for well over forty years, so my brain is a jumble of just all sorts of useless information. I still continue to learn almost every day, and see items I've never seen before, so to believe that if one hasn't heard of or seen the same item, or that it isn't found in an online search, that other examples don't exist strikes me just as unrealistic as believing that sales descriptions online are always reliable.

    Most of my books are packed away, but even if they weren't, I wouldn't have the time, or frankly the inclination, right now to go looking through the numerous references a similar piece might appear in. Are you just very curious (and I understand that), or do you want a specific name for a sales description, because if that's the case, it's usually better to mention any use or name that might be applicable, giving the buyer more search options.

    There is a similar form in American silver usually called a 'jelly server', but sometimes a 'jelly knife', there is also a larger serving piece with a long blade, typically called a 'jelly knife', that was used for serving aspic.

    https://www.google.com/search?sca_e...ceQASgQ0pQJegQIFhAB&biw=1536&bih=826&dpr=1.25

    https://www.google.com/search?q=ste...g&ei=4aa_ZrffFODXwt0Pldj2qQE&bih=826&biw=1536



    Perhaps you could provide photos, catalogue pages, or search results for your ideas or suppositions...


    It's a decorative element.



    This is from a 1911 French silver maker's catalog showing the named pieces in typical hors d'oeuvre and bonbon sets:

    french-hors-d-oeuvre-set-bonbon-1911-Ercuis.jpg


    Did a quick comparison of the OP's piece to butter knives from French hors d'oeuvre sets - and yes, I'm fully aware that they have pointed tips, but that isn't a requirement of butter knives, as evidenced in the spatulate form shown the catalog page I showed earlier...

    french-butter-knife-composite.jpg



    ~Cheryl
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2024
  2. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    Over & above the call of duty....... that's our Dragon !!!!!:playful:

    Well done !!;):happy::happy::happy:
     
  3. Matahari

    Matahari Well-Known Member

    yes perfectly documented , so not a butter knife as it's not flat
    but seems to have the pointy bit of jelly servers ( even if not so pointy ! ) , a fun research bounce (2).gif bounce (2).gif aj.jpg
     
    TheBearKiss likes this.
  4. DragonflyWink

    DragonflyWink Well-Known Member


    So, you're saying you've perfectly documented that, as I've said, there are American jelly servers that resemble the OP's French piece? They're a very common 20th century American form, with a cupped blade like the one you've shown, also a flat blade that usually had a small lip at the back, there was even at least one manufacturer who produced a flat rounded tip version somewhat similar in shape to the OP's. Different areas of the world define similar pieces as for different uses - perhaps reliable reference for French jelly servers could be provided...


    jelly-server-FMW.jpg


    The French comparison examples I posted all have a lip at the back, they are not perfectly flat, the OP stated their piece is "Almost flat) A little deep." The spatulate version found in hors d'oeuvre sets has a cupped blade and is described as a butter scoop/shovel, perhaps you might find that term more acceptable (though I don't think it really fits), but regardless, I will continue to suggest its use was for butter, and still find it more like a butter knife.


    french-hors-d-oeuvre-set-bonbon-1911-Ercuis-2.jpg


    ~Cheryl
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2024
  5. Bdigger

    Bdigger Well-Known Member

    se fancy things, but do

    I have no knowledge of these. But do you think the "hook" cut out may be for hanging the piece on the lip of the jar or container so it doesn't dirty the tablecloth? Just mt thoughts.
     
    komokwa and Bakersgma like this.
  6. DragonflyWink

    DragonflyWink Well-Known Member


    Hi Mike - it's just a decorative element...

    ~Cheryl
     
  7. TheBearKiss

    TheBearKiss Member

    Hello! Unfortunately, I also can’t understand what is shown there.
     
  8. TheBearKiss

    TheBearKiss Member

    Thank you very much!
    I found a lot of similar items in appetizer sets, reviewed including pages of different catalogs. But I didn't find any information about the butter, yes, it seems.

    The information is not needed for sale, the item is exclusively part of the collection)
     
    komokwa likes this.
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