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Very Unusual Cadogan Wine/Water Pot...Anyone Seen One Similar?
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<p>[QUOTE="AuDragon, post: 379407, member: 6974"]Hi JayC, This really got my interest so I have done a lot of research and I have to say I'm stumped! <img src="styles/default/xenforo/smilies/frown.png" class="mceSmilie" alt=":(" unselectable="on" /> It is identified as a water pot or Cadogan as mentioned above. I have searched the British Museum, the National Museum Beijing, eBay, Etsy, Britannica, Gotheborg, various ceramic websites, various collector websites and Google, Google, Google under more than a dozen different word combinations. I have not found one like it or anything similar that would lead me down a particular path of discovery. It's almost an enigma. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie86" alt=":sorry:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>You said above that they were first designed in the Ming period 1368-1644 or Qing period 1644-1912. Why would you think this was made much earlier in the Song Dynasty 960-1279?</p><p><br /></p><p>Given your provenance comments, I also wondered if it could be Korean. Korea and China have had an on and off relationship, particularly strong in the Goryeo period 935-1392 and also in the Joseon period 1392-1910. I still couldn't find any close matches using the above sources and similar key words.</p><p><br /></p><p>I have seen some really lovely crackle ceramics in my search in both white/cream and typical greenish celadon, but again, nothing and certainly nothing of this shape or purpose from the Song Dynasty. That period did do some lovely crackle work though.</p><p><br /></p><p>The dates you mentioned above equate to the Republic period in China 1912-1949. I wonder if this was a special gift or collectable from that period?</p><p><br /></p><p>I am interested in the "staining" on the top and the base. To me, this would indicate some use and general wear. Filling from the bottom and tipping forwards to pour through the spout might produce stains like that. But would water (hot or cold) have that effect? Could it have been for wine or alcohol?</p><p><br /></p><p>The depth of the base and the staining on the inside and outside of the base leads me to believe it would have been filled that way and not submerged.</p><p><br /></p><p>So IMHO, I feel you need to be really careful when describing this item. It could be as old as you believe, but I'm thinking late 19thC or very early 20thC, before 1912 which might make it very late Qing, which you mentioned.</p><p><br /></p><p>However, I am sure there are many much more qualified experts out there who will correct my mistakes, and I will continue to learn from this forum.<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie49" alt=":happy:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> Best of luck.</p><p><br /></p><p>Just for interest, I have added some images I found in my search:</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]130922[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]130923[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]130924[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="AuDragon, post: 379407, member: 6974"]Hi JayC, This really got my interest so I have done a lot of research and I have to say I'm stumped! :( It is identified as a water pot or Cadogan as mentioned above. I have searched the British Museum, the National Museum Beijing, eBay, Etsy, Britannica, Gotheborg, various ceramic websites, various collector websites and Google, Google, Google under more than a dozen different word combinations. I have not found one like it or anything similar that would lead me down a particular path of discovery. It's almost an enigma. :sorry: You said above that they were first designed in the Ming period 1368-1644 or Qing period 1644-1912. Why would you think this was made much earlier in the Song Dynasty 960-1279? Given your provenance comments, I also wondered if it could be Korean. Korea and China have had an on and off relationship, particularly strong in the Goryeo period 935-1392 and also in the Joseon period 1392-1910. I still couldn't find any close matches using the above sources and similar key words. I have seen some really lovely crackle ceramics in my search in both white/cream and typical greenish celadon, but again, nothing and certainly nothing of this shape or purpose from the Song Dynasty. That period did do some lovely crackle work though. The dates you mentioned above equate to the Republic period in China 1912-1949. I wonder if this was a special gift or collectable from that period? I am interested in the "staining" on the top and the base. To me, this would indicate some use and general wear. Filling from the bottom and tipping forwards to pour through the spout might produce stains like that. But would water (hot or cold) have that effect? Could it have been for wine or alcohol? The depth of the base and the staining on the inside and outside of the base leads me to believe it would have been filled that way and not submerged. So IMHO, I feel you need to be really careful when describing this item. It could be as old as you believe, but I'm thinking late 19thC or very early 20thC, before 1912 which might make it very late Qing, which you mentioned. However, I am sure there are many much more qualified experts out there who will correct my mistakes, and I will continue to learn from this forum.:happy: Best of luck. Just for interest, I have added some images I found in my search: [ATTACH=full]130922[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]130923[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]130924[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]
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Very Unusual Cadogan Wine/Water Pot...Anyone Seen One Similar?
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