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Message:: [QUOTE="Fid, post: 3356416, member: 7724"]Oswald and Wilhelm were brothers of one of the Thierstein lines and were given Hohkönigsburg in Alsace as fief by Friedrich III. who was of Habsburg decent as Friedrich V. and ruler of some Southern Austrian dukedoms before becoming Kaiser of the Holy Roman Empire.the Thierstein family has a long history of taking hostages and being a bit "unruly" even in Northern Italy, so the ideal guys for a stronghold that often changed hands.ssssooooooo, not Swiss, never Swiss really because the Thiersteins were from the canton of Aargau that was Habsburgian at the time, but later German and then changing between Germany and France.capisce ? <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie51" alt=":hilarious:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />to me it's a French fake because in 1460 the brothers werent there yet (1479 only) and because Wilhem should be Wilhelm.[/QUOTE]