Featured Old trunk/chest, how old?

Discussion in 'Furniture' started by J Dagger, Sep 7, 2020.

  1. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    James, James, James:stop: Dutch people don't speak German, they speak Dutch.:banghead: Nederlands, not Deutsch.:banghead:
    Maybe you mean the Pennsylvania Dutch (Deutsch!), who came from the German speaking world, not the Dutch speaking world.
     
  2. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Close Enough!
    Particularly in the 18th century, I mean, you got Huguenots living in France speaking "palatine" German (whatever the hell that is), all these weird dialects in Europe, it's little wonder they don't get along!

    A quick search brought this up

    [​IMG]

    Daniel Gaidys

    , knows German
    Answered April 8 · Upvoted by
    Clemens Hoste
    , lives in The Netherlands (1998-present) and
    Remi Whiteside
    , I can order Döner Kebaps for days...

    Until the 17th or 18th century, the language in the Netherlands was called nederduits, “low german”, becaus it was/is a variant of low german (spoken in the low/flat lands in the north, cf. Netherlands (low countries)). But of course dutch became a language, with a written standard, while low german in Germany had it (even if not standardized) but lost it.

    English: The water is cold.

    Dutch: Het water is koud.

    Low german: Dat water is kold.

    High german: Das wasser is kalt.

    or:

    English: The door is open.

    Dutch: De deur is open.

    Low german: De dör is open.

    High german: Die tür ist offen.

    So, often black sheep among the germanic languages isnt english, its german…

    Anyway in the south of the Netherlands the dialects are already tending to high german, or not far from the Cologne dialect, which is a high german dialect with low german elements.

    CASE CLOSED!
     
    komokwa likes this.
  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    No James, not closed. You can google all you like, and order Döner Kebab for days:playful:, that doesn't mean you know anything about the history of Dutch.:smuggrin: It is pretty clear you don't.

    "Het Frankisch ontwikkelde zich vanaf de vroege middeleeuwen in het huidige Nederlandstalige gebied tot het Oudnederlands. Het Oudnederlands, dat wil zeggen het Nederlands zoals dat van de 6de tot het midden van de 12e eeuw werd gesproken, was de voorloper van het Middelnederlands. De spelling van het Middelnederlands volgde de spreektaal, die per streek sterk kon verschillen. Dit was aanvankelijk niet zo belangrijk toen er nog weinig in de volkstaal op schrift werd gesteld en de meeste mensen, buiten de hogere geestelijke stand, ook analfabeet waren en er dus niet veel gelezen werd. Gedurende de hele middeleeuwen werden alle belangrijke geschriften en officiële documenten in het Latijn geschreven wat de lingua franca van de Europese elite was. In de 16e eeuw, toen de geletterdheid onder de 'gewone' bevolking sterk steeg en daardoor ook het Nederlands steeds belangrijker werd als schrijftaal, werden verschillende pogingen ondernomen een eenduidige spelling te realiseren. Uiteindelijk gaf de Staten-Generaal opdracht om de Bijbel vanuit de grondtekst te vertalen. Dit resulteerde in 1637 in een vertaling die bekend werd als de Statenvertaling. Voor deze vertaling werd een gulden middenweg gezocht tussen alle bestaande streektalen van het Nederlandse taalgebied. Basis vormen de Frankische dialecten van de gewesten Holland en Brabant. Saksische elementen zijn vooral de werkwoordsvormen op -acht (bracht, gebracht; dacht, gedacht) en het wederkerend voornaamwoord zich."

    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nederlands#Geschiedenis_van_het_Nederlands

    In short, in the early Middle Ages Old Dutch evolved from the original language of the Franks. Old Dutch was spoken from the 6th-12th century.
    After the 12th century Old Dutch evolved to Middle Dutch.
    The current form of Dutch was established in the 17th century, but it wasn't based on Low German, it evolved from Middle Dutch and was mainly based on the Frankish Dutch dialects of Holland and Brabant. They didn't suddenly switch to a foreign language in the 17th century after having spoken Dutch for centuries, obviously.:hilarious:
    I live in the south, and our language does not tend to High German. Dè kende nie moake, James!:D (Does that look High German to you?)

    So shall we leave the knowledge of early American furniture to you, and the knowledge of Dutch to me?
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    @James Conrad , while researching something else, I came across info on the German language, and of course I thought of your 'theory'.

    Old High German came into being in the 8th century, which means 2 centuries after Old Dutch came into being:
    "Die Geschichte der (hoch-)deutschen Sprache wird häufig in vier Abschnitte (Sprachstufen) unterteilt:

    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Sprache#Geschichte

    Do you still want to maintain that the Dutch spoke German until they suddenly thought it was a good idea to invent Dutch?:hilarious:
    There wasn't even a German language when the Dutch first began to speak Dutch.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
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