Featured Old embroidered black and white textile - Swedish? Russian?

Discussion in 'Textiles, Needle Arts, Clothing' started by Bookahtoo, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. Bookahtoo

    Bookahtoo Moderator Moderator

    The white fabric was created first - its whole cloth. Then the black thread was added - I don't know by what method, but the black figures are made up of long black threads that go the entire width of the fabric, so it isn't satin stitch. But the black threads don't go back and forth, back and forth - they end at the edge, are cut off, and then a new thread is started on the other side just under that one. There are two selvage sides - it's 22" wide, and probably was much longer than 35".
     
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  2. Bookahtoo

    Bookahtoo Moderator Moderator

    I just went back and read this - yes - except it's from selvage to selvage, then cut off.
     
  3. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    So....I may still be a bit confused, but this is my current understanding: in your first photograph, the top and bottom edges are selvages, which are the finished edges where the weft of the base fabric turns back and forth. So, if you turned the cloth 90 degrees it would be oriented as it would have been on the loom. In that orientation, the black threads of the design would run in the same direction as the warp that is stretched on the loom, and the width of the fabric on the loom would be 22". One of your close-ups shows a folded hem which runs across the black threads, and this would be consistent with the cloth being cut across the warp, which leaves loose thread ends that must be hemmed.
    The significance of this is that a 22" width is more consistent with a more "primitive" loom, such as a backstrap loom, as opposed to a more substantial floor loom. This might point us in different directions than a 35" loom width.
    I still think the black decoration was worked in during the weaving process, though it would be a supplementary warp instead of weft, as I first suggested.
    But I still don't have any good ideas as to where it was actually made. :(
     
  4. lizjewel

    lizjewel Well-Known Member

    Studies in Primitive Looms, a 1918 book about primitive looms, illustrates how this type weave is made:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/internetarchivebookimages/14781294311/
    The description of the loom in the sketch notes that,
    AN OTHER PATTERN ON SAClECLOTtt AS SHEWN IN F1G.1OS AN* REF-LATED B~< PATTERN ROb AND PATTERN ftEDDLE « l.R. proceeds, and is woven right across the web or in part only as required ; if in part only the ends of the weft hang down as shown in Fig. 101 until further required.For this sort of pattern weaving the worker is guided by the special way in whichthe warp is laid out.
     
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  5. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

  6. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

  7. lizjewel

    lizjewel Well-Known Member

    The Worthpoint presentation claims Guatemalan and handembroidered. Guatemalan I can believe [as well take-your-pick of any South American country for that matter] but handembroidered? I think it might just be a guess here.
     
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  8. kyratango

    kyratango Bug jewellery addiction!

    images of the link i need help provided:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Bookahtoo's:
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. lizjewel

    lizjewel Well-Known Member

    i need help likes this.
  10. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    So they are getting back to your first surmise. :):):):):):)
     
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  11. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Of course!
    We aren't really needed, are we. inh is a one-woman forum.:playful:
    Maybe this works:
    upload_2020-2-7_15-51-25.jpeg
    upload_2020-2-7_15-51-57.jpeg
    upload_2020-2-7_15-52-14.jpeg
     
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  12. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    You'll make her blush, you will. I agree - at least not me - you, perhaps, on a good day. :D:D:D:D:D
     
  13. KikoBlueEyes

    KikoBlueEyes Well-Known Member

    Now I understand. Same bird!
     
  14. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    I agree that the example inh has found is from the same place as Bookahtoo's. But I am not sure they are from Guatemala. The Mayan weavers use a lot of color in their textiles - I think it would be unusual to have something in just black and white. I am also still hung up on the direction of the decorative threads. Mayan textiles use a lot of supplementary weft designs, in which the pattern threads run perpendicular to the warp and the selvages. On Bookahtoo's cloth, the design threads appear to run parallel to the warp and selvages, which is a different technique. @Bookahtoo, can you please confirm that the black threads run parallel to the selvages?
     
  15. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    judy, blooey, 2manybooks and 2 others like this.
  16. kyratango

    kyratango Bug jewellery addiction!

  17. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

     
  18. i need help

    i need help Moderator Moderator

    Bordado Zoque

    Os zoques bordam principalmente em negro sobre o fundo branco. Utilizam duas ferramentas muito próprias, desenvolvidas em madeira, para apoiar a manta e executar o bordado em movimento.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    So maybe Sampler for borders. Maybe someone can translate.
    https://abolsaamarelaviaja.wordpress.com/category/destinos/mexico/
     
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  19. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Your mind was on a certain beauty with a sweet and unusual agate bead, maybe?:angelic:
    I guessed it was one of those sites that don't allow copying, so I saved them in my own photo program first, and then copied them from there. A roundabout way which usually works.:)
     
  20. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    @i need help , I can't even quote you that way.:playful:
    Now I forgot what I wanted to say.:hilarious:
     
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