Featured Naive American southern scene

quote Komokwa : I also thought I recognized a pine tree forrest ......

 

https://music.unc.edu/event/history-of-the-horn/




and the fiddle or violin............. so I thought American.....

 

Matahari, you seem to have jumped to a conclusion based on very little evidence, and are resistant to any explanation other than that the painting is "an American southern scene". When presented with alternative (and, I would suggest, better supported) interpretations, you reject them in favor of explanations consistent with your preconception.

For example, Virginia is not the only place where conifers grow. Here are silver fir trees in France, which look more like the trees in the painting than the ones in komo's example -

Forest of silver fir tree in winter, Pyrenees, Aude in south of France, Abies alba
https://www.dreamstime.com/forest-s...s-aude-south-france-abies-alba-image100889973

And a list of other conifers common in France -

https://inventaire-forestier.ign.fr/spip.php?rubrique87

You say the house can't be French, because French houses have chimneys. So did 19th century houses in America, and the entire house is not visible in the painting.

Like @Debora, I would like to know how you came to suggest it was an American scene?

 

This description from the Britannica refers to this type of horn - circular, one handed, without valves (emphasis added) -

The large circular French hunting horn, the trompe (or cor) de chasse, appeared in about 1650; the modern orchestral, or French, horn derives from it. Still played in modern France and Belgium by huntsmen, brass bands, and horn-playing clubs, it varies in diameter and number of coils but is often about 15 inches (38 centimetres) across, coiled three times, with 15 feet (4 1/2 metres) of tubing. It is held on the player’s arm with one hand alone;
https://www.britannica.com/art/horn-musical-instrument-group#ref155725

And this example in a French antiques shop -

https://lelouvre-antiques.com/produ...ss-hunting-horn-le-cor-de-chasse-early-1900s/

 

your horn is similar...... but the but the brace between horn and tube is curved in a U shape. As is the one between the tube and mouthpiece...!


the one photoed by the University of North Carolina.... is more in line with the painting....

.


and then there's that darned fiddle !!!!!!!

As I have no wish to further dispute this painting as being either American or French, only to state it's beauty and interest as a long lost slice of life..... I will leave it up to the rest of you to argue it's origin !!

Nice painting @Matahari !

 

So is this one, from a French site


https://www.musicologie.org/sites/cuivres.html

I have found several by German makers as well, so I don't think a straight or curved brace has anything to do with the country in which they were made or played.

 

I don't see such discussions as disputes, or arguments - rather, an interesting (if sometimes heated) investigation based on diverse lines of evidence. It is what makes this site fun. It is a great excuse to explore new things. And you have to be willing to learn and change your point of view.

What, exactly, puzzles you about the fiddle? The Cajuns have included wonderful fiddlers. Is it the position it is held, on the chest rather than under the chin?

https://www.fiddlingaround.co.uk/French Fiddle/

He is a fiddler from the Bearn region of France - interestingly, an area near the Pyrenees, like the silver fir trees.

 

as disputes, or arguments

I used both words differently........ neither meant in a negative connotation ...

 

You are obviously a Canadian......

 

While many people associate the term, "argument," with a negative connotation, arguments are actually a regular part of the workplace and other areas of a person's life. Arguments are used to negotiate as well as to determine the best solution for a particular issue.

Yup....100% Canuck !

 

@Matahari, your enlargement shots of your painting are GREAT!!!!!!!!!

 

You left off an important part of that definition, relevant in this context -
[Arguments] "can also be used to determine the extent of truth there is in a certain claim or hypothesis."
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/types-of-arguments

 

yes, but this is not a hill I want to die on....

 

i

 

me neither

 

oh yeah, a quickie, the cap was condirmed as confederate on a military site.

 

That is good information. Can you please provide a link to that?

 

I apologize - I know I am sometimes like a dog with a bone - I can't let go until I figure something out.

Part of the confusion about the caps is that members of the US military adopted the French style of cap during the mid 19th century, and, according to this article, some were included in a purchase of French uniforms in 1861 -



"MI Senior Editor Michael J. McAfee is a curator at the West Point
Museum at the United States Military Academy, and author of
numerous books. He has curated major museum exhibitions, and has
contributed images and authoritative knowledge to other volumes
and projects"

The article is talking about Union uniforms, and does not mention the colors of the caps. But in almost all cases, the Union forces (the North) wore blue, while the Confederates (the South) wore gray or brown. All of the examples I have found on the web of similar Civil War caps are from Union forces. In any case, the entire uniform of the band members in the painting is also blue and so unlikely to be Confederate .

Here are some examples of French cap reproductions that are very similar to the ones in the painting -

https://www.authentic-costumes.com/product-page/french-kepi-pattern-1852-1858-or-1867

https://www.doursoux.com/en/kepis/173-french-foreign-legion-kepi-1st-model-0.html

 

I was hoping the structure of the stretcher might provide more evidence of the painting's origin. But it is a pretty simple strainer, without many distinguishing features (that I can see). I can see, however, that the crease(s) visible on the front were caused by a vertical cross bar that is now missing.