Featured Lace "Merry Christmas" handkerchief?

Thanks. I consulted some lace sites, which seem to contradict the ones you found.
I'll have to check my books. Something I probably should have done in the first place, but they are hidden behind my comfy chair, which is very hard to move.

My first thought was actually that Linda's was machine lace, but in order to ascertain that you have to check the number of threads going back and forth, if that makes sense.

 

That thought ran across my mind as well, but I haven't found any credible sources for pics of machine made Valenciennes and I don't have the knowledge to identify it without such.

I think @moreotherstuff may be on to something with the show-us-what-you've-learned/sampler" idea. One of the things that made me think "maybe machine" is that, the "twists" of the ring pairs are sometimes pretty sloppy (to my eye, but I am not a lace maker). Also, there are parts of the mesh I originally thought were bridges, but re-examination suggests no, the mesh got away from the lace maker.

I hear ya. This forum made me go digging for my lace books early on and it involved really heavy boxes. I now have a small collection of books that live on the file cabinet directly behind my computer chair - I just have to swivel.

 

There is no more room behind mine.

Apparently machine made Valenciennes has a double thread going back and forth, handmade a single thread.

 

Okay, you guys have my head spinning! I just wanted to know crochet vs knit vs bobbin vs I-don't-know-what-else! I will try ...... emphasis on TRY ...... to get some better pictures of the different parts later today. This is the very reason I absolutely LOVE this forum! Every single id post teaches us new stuff, some we didn't even know we didn't know!
Gratefully, Linda

 

Just throwing in my two cents...
IMHO, it looks like a vintage machine-made Torchon cotton lace. Love it!

 

I am still on the Valenciennes train.

I found a piece of reportedly machine-made Valenciennes at Maas museum.
https://collection.maas.museum/object/184545

I don't know if all machine made pieces have a gimp thread around the edge, but this one appears to. Which the OP's does not. As far as I can tell.

So, I'm (currently) sticking with handmade Valenciennes.

 

Mr Jivvy adds his kudos.

(both of us shaking our heads that it never occurred to us as an option. )

 

Okay, this is still not sharp but I think it's about as good as I can get without some lessons. More coming.



Linda

 

Here goes!

Well, they are a little fuzzy except for the last one. I can tell you there is nothing raised anywhere, no gimp thread at the edge. It doesn't feel slick like silk but doesn't really feel like cotton either, feels finer than that. This has turned into much more of an adventure than I anticipated. I believe I have learned the rudiments of resizing photos, imperfectly but at least I found them in the folder I expected them in! Many many thanks to you all for your efforts and expertise!

Linda

 

I still wish we could see the mesh more clearly (don't hate me, I truly know it's ridiculously difficult to photograph fine lace), but I see nothing that changes my mind.

 

Here's a question: On the back, going around the edges of the center clothwork, do you see any little tufts signifying cut threads? Additional threads were introduced to increase the density of clothwork and were then clipped. (Toomer, p. 187).

How lucky your lace has writing and it's easy to tell which is the back! I've stared and stared at pieces of lace with a magnifying glass and not had a clue which was "right side up".

Not having clipped threads doesn't mean a whole lot, having them is a start in dating the piece.

 

I see nothing on the back to indicate cut threads. Looking at the piece in my hand and then looking at my photos it's hard to believe they are the same piece. Gossamer is an excellent word to describe the piece in hand. The last photo is of the letter "s" at the end of Christmas. The threads forming the letter look thinner than my own hairs. The photos look like blanket yarn.

 

If you go back to the original photos, look at the second one which shows the shield shape in the center. Between the solid part of the shield and the thin framing border are vertical threads at the top and bottom and horizontal ones on the sides. Most of these show to be pairs of thread laying side by side. There are some that show the pair separated. Now go back to the first pic and see how much smaller it is and how incredibly fine the thread actually is. The more I look at the darned thing, the more impressed I am!

 

If you could get a photo of the circled section as focused as you got the "S," I think it would answer some questions for me.

BTW, I don't know if you checked for clipped threads with magnification or the naked eye, but for most people, it would require magnification to see (again, doesn't mean much of if they're not there, just if they are).

 

Just for fun, I sought out the oldest example I could find of "Merry Christmas/Happy New Year" (there may be older, but I don't need them for my purposes):

From a 1740 play published in London.
https://books.google.com/books?id=cJgNAAAAQAAJ

 

Could it be silk thread ??? ... Joy.

 

OK. Now I have a headache!

 

Did I cause your headache ??? ...

 

Now someone has a pounding head ...
And seems the rest of you have fled ...
My question was "Could this be silk" ...
It's very fragile for its ilk.
I never meant to cause one pain ...
Knowledge is all I care to gain ...
Linen, wool, silk or cotton ...
No longer care, and now forgotten.

 

Noooooo, @Christmasjoy! Don't give up on me! I've been trying really hard to get ready for my son and daughter-in-law's baby shower Saturday so I've been on again off again. My first grandbaby is due September 11 and I'm just way too excited.

The fabric is extremely light, the thread is very fine but the hand is not slick or silky. It feels more like cotton to me, I've just never seen cotton that fine. I will try to get additional photos of the area Jivvy was requesting. I really appreciate all the information and investigation that's already been done.

Linda