Featured is this a real bellarmine jug?

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by hunt2, May 27, 2024.

  1. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Difficult to see with that glare, but the base doesn't seem to have much wear. But it is a beauty.
    Thanks. I see there is a space between DI and KAN, so the last bit means 'the jug' (like 'die kan' or 'de kan' in Dutch).
    I do know 'Piefge' as a nickname, but it could have a different meaning as well.

    I can make out that the text is in Ripuarian (Ripuarisch), the language spoken in Freschen and the surrounding part of the German Rhineland, but also in southeastern Dutch Limburg and part of the province of Liège, in Belgium.
    That is a sign that it was probably made for the local market.

    It looks like a rhyme for a drinking game. I don't speak Ripuarian, but I'll see how far I get with the text.;)
    My take on the first bit is: "Piefge has invented (made?) you"
    'DOBT' looks like 'DOBY' to me, meaning "thereby".
    I suspect 'LEDERMAN' is actually 'Iederman', "everyone".
    'FRONGDE' means "friends" imo.

    I know it is difficult to photograph a text on a globular object, but could you take a photo of the part that says:

    NECVDE : FRONGDE : DOBT : GETNPDABWES
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2024
  2. hunt2

    hunt2 Well-Known Member

    it is super hard to photograph the jug because the glare of the glaze. but the words you want to see can not be read because the glaze has melted on that part.
     
    Any Jewelry likes this.
  3. hunt2

    hunt2 Well-Known Member

    here new photo's
    IMG_20240529_165147111.jpg IMG_20240529_143342264.jpg
     
    Any Jewelry likes this.
  4. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I see what you mean. I guess the imprint in the clay wasn't as good as on the other parts. Thanks anyway.
    So from what we can see, it looks like a rhyme in Ripuarian for a drinking game.

    What about the crests, those can be interesting, can you show those?
     
  5. hunt2

    hunt2 Well-Known Member

    How old do you think this jug is? 20th century or older? It is in one piece only one gap has been filled in with some white material

    IMG_20240529_172717040.jpg IMG_20240529_172709219.jpg IMG_20240529_172729267.jpg
     
  6. hunt2

    hunt2 Well-Known Member

    i posted it online for sale but just to see what would happen. i am always the curious one. My jug is made of two halves and has a seam running over the body. So i think thats not a good sign..but i have decided to keep it because i think it is a one off piece. it has been removed from the sale platform. if anyone can tel me more about this jug i would love to hear it.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2024
    808 raver likes this.
  7. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    I can't help you with the age, but I do think it is very attractive.
     
  8. hunt2

    hunt2 Well-Known Member

    ok
     
  9. 808 raver

    808 raver Well-Known Member

    I'm no expert but I do understand the outside decoration would have been applied after the jug had been thrown, then salt would have been chucked into the kiln to glaze, finding a smooth bit around the applied decoration doesn't mean it was made in two halves but if you find a seem inside then that's a different story.
     
  10. hunt2

    hunt2 Well-Known Member

    well that's the strange part of it. I see what look like a line from bottom to top across the face and by the handle. but the bottom part is clearly hand thrown???
     
    808 raver likes this.
  11. Bev aka thelmasstuff

    Bev aka thelmasstuff Colored pencil artist extraordinaire ;)

    I follow a Facebook page called London Mudlark: Lara Maiklem. She finds a lot of bits of Bellarmine faces all the time.
     
    kentworld likes this.
  12. 808 raver

    808 raver Well-Known Member

    Maybe some photos of this seem/line might clear it up?
     
  13. hunt2

    hunt2 Well-Known Member

    Well i have looked inside with a flash light and indeed it is made of two halves and has a sort of oval form. But it is not cast moulded but hand built. But i think this jug is an experimental jug and it has a little man with a bowler hat as a signature. IMG_20240530_134714688.jpg
     
    kentworld, Happy! and Bookahtoo like this.
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