Featured I took a punt and bought this, what do members think?

I don't care to guess at age......it's out of my wheelhouse....

but early 1800's would not shock me

 

Maybe it was on the bottom of a stack of boxes for most of its life.

 

one way or another..........good Punt !!!!!!

( on a personal note......u should hang around here more often...... u bring the heat !!)

 

I'm not sure if this box is Indian at all? I think it maybe 18th c or even 17th c English, I've been looking at bible boxes (because I couldn't find this paten on Nagina) and the themes seem very similar, admittedly this is well out of my field of knowledge and I could be miles out but the flowers, the arches with plants inside, I don't think it's a bible box I was just looking for examples of carving. Here are a few examples.
https://www.easyliveauction.com/cat...he-saturday-auctions-19th-august-2023-lot-15/
https://www.nicholsonsantiques.com/product/english-oak-bible-box-on-stand-2/
https://www.reemandansie.com/auctio...-wide-x-40cm-deep-x-30cm-high/?lot=88469&sd=1
https://alexandergeorgeantiques.com...box-with-original-iron-clasp-and-staple-lock/
I know these boxes don't look like mine just the themes of carving.

 

Ok I think I've got it "guilloche" is the name for the flowers and geometric pattern and shelf and lunette is the arches with the plants inside. These wood carving designs are often found on 16th, 17th, and 18th c wooden items. That sounded like a statement lol when it should have been, do you think I'm on the right path?

 

I only know guilloche for that enamel work......so..

 

So did I but this is the definition "guil·loche gi-ˈlōsh gē-ˈ(y)ōsh. 1. : an architectural ornament formed of two or more interlaced bands with openings containing round devices. 2. : a pattern (as on metalwork) made by interlacing curved lines.

 

Unfortunately I'm trying to learn from other antique dealers descriptions of what they have that mine has so I can type in the right words to find similar boxes to mine (if I'm on the right track) Financially I'd be better off it being Nagina, what I'm trying to do is find a word or words that encompass that type of ware it is. "Guilloche" is the right word for the pattern on the top "lunette" is the right word for the arch but I'm yet to find how to describe the arch, columns, and plant inside as a term, so many of the old carved bible boxes have this sort of carving on them there must be a word for it.

 

Many motifs are seen in both Asian and European culture. I also have items that lead me in both directions, and it can take months or years to get a positive ID.

 

I don't know the term, but in Indian art the arch represents the celestial world, and the plant represents the terrestrial world.

There is also plant and tree symbolism of course, and there is the divine Kalpavriksha tree, which fulfils wishes. A vase with a plant or flowers is similar to the European cornucopia. All of these can go together with an arch, to represent the unity between two worlds.

 

I agree that it could be either and if it is English it's far more detailed than I've seen and far more like Nagina but there are points about it that don't say Nagina 1) the motifs 2) the age 3) the shallow carving but if it is Nagina I'm still very happy as that is what I thought I was buying.

 

If you can determine the wood, you can determine the origin.
Aren't English "Bible boxes" generally oak?

 

From my Nagina collection I have taken 2 photos of arch and leaf motifs, they are quite different

 

Yes they are, I don't think it's a bible box I was only looking at them for the carving of the period.

 

I think I will have to wait until I get it to really find out, there maybe evidence inside that points to it's age and origin. I'm not normally so flummoxed when it comes to antiques, I can normally pin it down quicker than this, the wood type isn't clear either, it's too close grain for oak.

 

Ok, it's defiantly not Nagina, it's light in weight and it's old but other than that I'm stumped. Hinges have been changed but I don't think this was recently done, going by the screws (tarnish inside the slot) I suspect this was done at the same time as the strapping was added, maybe in the Victorian period. There are signs of cloth attached to pins/tacks inside so it might have had cloth on the inside originally. No lock to help identify age. In the words of Toyah Wilcox "it's a mystery" add lisp

 

A charming lithp too, Toya Wilocth.

 

I really don't think I'll ever be able to pin this box down and that gives me a real problem, what do I do? I collect antiques and not knowing where, when or who made it makes keeping it hard, or even if it's worth keeping?

 

I wouldn't decide anything yet, you have only had it for a short time. Maybe someone will come along who knows more about it.

Do you have any idea what type of wood it is yet? Maybe @verybrad can help there.

 

"Do I have any idea what wood it is" lol I've just found out by trying to use the box lid to try and bend back the hinge and I broke the box body by the hinge the wood is bright light red with a shiny look like this Aromatic Red Cedar https://www.wood-database.com/eastern-red-cedar/ but without any knots, it's not anything I've seen or used before.