Featured Help me to identification order

Discussion in 'Militaria' started by Rashit, Dec 12, 2017.

  1. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    You are right, but in this case religieuse is a clarification of chapitre. Members of Catholic chapters are men, usually canons.
    (No, not guns.;))
     
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  2. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Was looking through emedals for French order badges/medals. Looks as though the one for the Order of St. Louis is the only one with a fleur de lis (makes sense, flower of Louis) below the suspension ring & overall the one most like the one under discussion. If they confine themselves to militaria & this is a strictly religious piece, would not expect to find a match. All the crosses & most of the stars have something else between the arms/rays; fleurs de lis in the case of the Order of St. Louis. Every one I looked at in detail has a definite obverse & reverse, as well as writing on at least one side.

    Rashit's medal seems like sort of a stripped down St. Louis medal. If you cut the blue border off Louis as he appears on the Order's medal, you would get something similar to the center of this one, with shorter crown & missing hands, although he'd have to get out of his armor & into his civvies.

    upload_2018-1-23_19-39-49.png
     
  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Both the symbol and the name were in use long before saint Louis. The old spelling is fleur de lys. The etymology is still not determined for 100%.
    Likely candidates are:

    Fleur de Leie, from the old home of the Franks along the river Leie, in Belgian Flanders. The banks of the Leie are known for the abundance of irises. It is a picturesque region, a painter's paradise.

    And, surprisingly, Flemish (southern Dutch).
    The Dutch/Flemish word for iris is lis (pronounced like you would in English), nowadays used interchangeably with iris. My mother's generation always used the name lis, and I usually do as well.
    The fleur de lis symbol was used a lot in French Flanders, in northern France, where Flemish was once widely spoken. Some people in the Calais-Dunkirk region still speak it, in spite of years of repression, and over the last 10 yrs or so they have been recruting teachers here in the Netherlands.

    Dutch/Flemish terms for irises:
    Gele lis:
    [​IMG]
    Blauwe lis:
    [​IMG]

    St Louis in the medal of the order of St Louis is standing. The figure in Rashit's medal seems to be seated, with part of his robe in his lap. St Louis is facing sideways, the figure in Rashit's medal is facing front.

    I think Kristiaan/Jerome's explanation the most plausible one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  4. Rashit

    Rashit Member

    Good afternoon.
    Version.
    Can anyone knows how looks like the French order of St. Hubert, established in 1815 by king Louis XVlll.
    The order of St. Hubert was established:
    1.The Duchy Of Jülich-Berg, Gerhard V (1444),
    2. Germany. German Duchy of württemberg(1702-1807),
    3. Germany. Bavaria (180:cool:,
    4. Germany. Prussia (1859-1918),
    5. France (1815-1830) .

    E05EB4F2-0075-4601-9148-60F28658BB26.jpeg
     
  5. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    St Hubert/Hubertus orders are usually associated with hunting. There is no connection between the various Hubertus orders, they were set up by local aristocracy or citizen's groups to regulate the rules of hunting. They usually have the colour green somewhere to signify nature.

    The French 'ordre de Saint-Hubert du duché de Bar':
    [​IMG]


    This is the Bavarian one you mentioned:
    [​IMG]

    Jülich-Berg:
    [​IMG]

    International order of st Hubertus:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2018
  6. kristiaan

    kristiaan Well-Known Member

    Please be careful with the medal site I see mentioning twice here!
    They are well know for mixing false and originals....:confused:
     
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  7. Rashit

    Rashit Member

    Nowhere couldn't find a view of the French order of St. Hubert.
    Thank You.
     
  8. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    The French 'ordre de Saint-Hubert du duché de Bar':
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Rashit

    Rashit Member

    I figured it out. Thank you, best regards Rashit.
     
    Figtree3 likes this.
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