Featured Fine Russian Gilt Silver & Enamel Perfume Bottle - 5.5 inch

I have been looking at it through a loupe, and I also see a kokoshnik mark.

Yes, it is known. I think we have a thread in which I posted a few pictures of kokoshniks.

 

I have been looking at the Russsian catalogue of silver and gold marks here (a scan of a printed one)
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Каталог клейм золотых и серебряных изделий Царской России XV-XXвв - Антикварные клейма (kleima.ru)

and saw that an oval mark starting with the figure of finess (84 or 56, or...) and followed by a head with kokoshnik was used before 1908 and the head was looking left. Then after 1908 the oval mark started with the head looking right and the figure of finess followed it to the right.

So if we accept that the image under question (next to 84 figure on the right) is a head with kokoshnik (and not a city mark) it should look left and it should indicate an item before 1908. Do you see it looking left?

Also there is another mark, the first one on the left, a round one with a kokoshnik head looking right which would indicate an item after 1908. So before or after 1908? Contradiction in marks for me.

Furthermore I wonder why there are two kokoshnik marks on the base of the item, and contradictory ones, combined with a third kokoshnik head on the stem of the plug, for Warsaw assay office after 1908. IMO, too many marks as if someone wanted to be sure that no one will question the authenticity of the item.

The above reasoning will change if better pictures show that the image in question is not a kokoshnik head.

Also the maker's mark is interesting - which is the first letter in it? Is it "Ф"? Or is it a Latin letter? Is the second one "R" or "P" with a dot? It will be good to analyse it, too.

Ok, then I will erase it.

 

Correct, and I see it looking left.

 

Thank you!

 

So, how would you explain two kokoshnik marks almost next to each other (with what appears to be a maker's mark in between) indicating opposite periods? I am just curious what explanation it might have.

 

A re-stamp can occur if it was offered for sale a second time. I don't know exactly if that was possible in Russia, but it was in some other countries.

 

Could be on the cusp of the change. Easier to explain than having an assay mark indicating one country and a kokoshnik mark indicating another.

 

I have been reading the Russian forum I posted back (for my own research), and there is a huge thread about pre 1917 silver (and many other things, too, incl Faberge) and the opinion of the experienced there is that if there are contradictory marks as periods it is a red lamp. I mean no one is sure, of course, but they advice to stay away from these (I guess that they have seen more forgeries than authentic items with re-stamp, especially when it comes to expensive items). As there is a part of the forum for sales, many users first ask for attribution and appraisal, and then post it for sale, this is how it works. I don't imply anything, I just retell what I have read there.

B.t.w they have many threads about Faberge items, and very interesting ones.

Could be, yes.
IMO, all marks should be read as a complex. I mean there can be dots or letters on the kokoshnik heads which we cannot see now (not on the one on the stem which is visible, on the other two) and which also give information. Also the maker's mark is important to be deciphered.
Well, during that time it was the same country, only different cities in it.

 

There is nothing impossible in this world.

 

Actually, as I understood it, in Imperial Russia the marks on precious metals were obligatory to be put when the item was manufactured because they were the basis for collecting taxes after selling them. And non-compliance was punished severely, including by closing the workshop. I don't see how an item would be manufactured, stamped, sold and taxed, and then returned to the manufacturer for sale again and thus re-stamped.
Interestingly, platinum was not marked as it was not considered precious metal

 

To my knowledge, re-stamped items were never returned to the manufacturer, that wouldn't make sense.
They were first sold in a shop to a customer. Then, for some reason, for instance because of the death of the customer, the item ended up in a second hand silver shop, or something similar.
In many countries, if such a shop offered an item for sale, it needed to be stamped again at an assay office to comply with tax regulations, and to make sure it complied with the fineness legislation of the day.

 

I see, well, I don't know how it was in Russia, and haven't seen it discussed.

 

Maybe it is in Tardy's silvermark book, but my brain needs a rest.

 

''IvaPan''. All your reasoning and arguments are absolutely correct, but it is impossible to say exactly based on assumptions what is marked there.(what can we see)

 

Agree. Waiting for better photos.

 

Exactly.
I for one am not going to post in this thread anymore until there are better photos (if so). All this conjecture is a bit much for me.

 

No the mark is a single mark on the dauber of the perfume. It is the head with single dot.

 

Finally was able to access the server to get photographs. Here you go! Thank you for spending time on this thread!

 

@laura9797 - not sure how you posted these images, but for me they are non-clickable thumbnails...

~Cheryl

 

Hum, I uploaded as I usually do. I'll see if I can at least get the photos with the hallmarks clickable.