Featured Can anyone give me information on this?

"Cool wonder if it’s worth anything?"
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"would have to be significant for me to even part with it."

my....how things change so fast..............

 

Nothing changed fast, I posted it wanting to know more about it. And if I was to sell it yes it would have to be “significant” I’m not desperate for money.

 

It gives the sword provenance, don't separate them.

 

Don’t think it’s the same name

 

You said it was the same crest. A descendant perhaps.

 

This document and the sword would be very important to the family they came from. Not to raise any hackles here, but if they were acquired under dubious circumstances, that could be a problem.

 

Friedrich Wilhelm

appears to speak about the family crest in great detail (ie the meaning of the symbols used etc) of King Wilhelm III of Prussia

 

With the constant repetition of Otto Wenzel's name, I do think this document relates to him. Being raised to the nobility would be an honor granted by the monarch, and references to Wilhelm attest to his authority on the matter.

 

I’m sure it’s of importance to some family I’m just not sure which one the document is quite beautiful in person and like I said all that is hand painted

 

I'm pretty sure the name is Wentzel, not Wenzel. This is the only reference to it I've found so far: http://www.5dollarcoatsofarms.com/gallery/W/pages/image238.html but nothing authoritative.

 

Using Wentzel, I've found some tantalizing tidbits:

From a French reference on German heraldry:



From a book on Otto Von Bismarck:



And from a German book on I-don't-even-know-what:

(which translates as "Royal Prussian chief magistrate in Langenbogen
Wentzel"

These all have associations with a prominent "Wentzel" in Frankfort am Main in 1859.

 

Well, my Wenzels were from Saxony, so that's that.

 

it's of no importance. Frankfurt am Main was a big city then and still is now. there were tens of thousands made and given out every year.
there is a big difference between Dienstadel and Erbadel in the Central European system; the first one - like this here - was given for services in administration, sometimes military, sometimes as here as attaché etc. and the title was not handed down; the second one were hereditary titles that are much rarer and still have a certain meaning in states that put show over intelligence.
in Germany a part of populace is mentally so retarded that they give the hereditary titles a value they legally don't have anymore.

 

You may be right, I have no idea. But I find it strange that someone put this much time and detail in something For someone of no importance.

 

that was the time before they had copy machines, but offices or scriptoriums. although the invention of typewriters was on its way, it was not thought suitable and unpolite for certifcates well into the 20th c.
a simple bookprinter received this:

 

Agree that it makes a huge difference whether the honor is hereditary or not. I wonder what the documentation looks like for non-hereditary appointments on the British Honours List.

Also agree that it should be irrelevant in this day and age, but the cults of celebrity, exclusivity, and wealth keep such things flourishing.

 

big problem indeed. Mom always told me, that the Americans are like little children; seems they dream of princes and kings and queens and castles instead of realizing how happy they should be to live in a democracy...
too much Disney's Cinderella I guess...
when I look at the list of EC-countries and see how many still have kings and queens I shudder in disgust...
somewhere there MUST be some functioning guillotines stored away...

 

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I'd be unhappy if I knew nothing about the continent and have to ask around.

 

If that’s what would make you unhappy, then you’re not following the rules of being happy of life today.