Message:

<p>[QUOTE=&quot;afantiques, post: 224284, member: 25&quot;]<i>If the house number gets stuck with the item it will go on the houses number so no one knows the house was bidding. </i></p><p><i>Its extremely dishonest.</i></p><p><br /></p><p>Not really.</p><p><br /></p><p>All auction houses have some form of reserve available to vendors to make sure they either get some price level or keep the item.</p><p><br /></p><p>This has some observable effects. One of the easiest to spot is a house number, you see an item in the catalogue where the estimate is well above what you think it is worth, and note the bidder number it is knocked down to. Do the same for a few more items that seem too expensive and lo and behold, all the same number. You have now established the house number.</p><p><br /></p><p>But it is just a way of bidding up to the reserve, the auctioneer&nbsp; is bidding on behalf of the seller who would not sell at the price offered. Plenty of other ways of dealing with reserves, the simplest is to start the bidding 10% under the reserve, so it can sell at that (auctioneer&#039;s discretion) but they hope it will fetch more. Sometimes the actioneer will start at maybe half or less of the estimate, and if the reserve is not reached, simply announce the fact, and maybe say &quot;Come and see me later if interested&quot;, or they may knock the item down but announce no buyer number.</p><p><br /></p><p>It is the usual practice to set estimates with the lower figure being the reserve. This leads to the amateur bidder only scenario. The item may have an estimate of 800 to 1200 but the room dealers being of much the same opinion about value, do not see it as worth more than 600.</p><p>So what you see is the low start at maybe 200 and a series of bids. But all the pro dealers are sitting on their hands, only hopeful amateurs are&nbsp; bidding and they all fizzle out well below the reserve. The pros simply did not waste their time with it. A canny auctioneer will have noted the lack of bidding from &#039;the usual suspects&#039;&nbsp; and probably tell the client to lower the reserve next time round.</p><p><br /></p><p>With absentee bids, I go to&nbsp; the auction in person a few times to observe the practices, sometimes leaving a few bids to see how they are treated. These are usually on things where my bid is well above estimate so reserves do not confuse matters. If the bidding starts around bottom estimate and goes up with room bidders, and especially if I get the item for well below my maximum, I know I can trust the auctioneer for a fair shake and in future leave all my bids and save a trip to the actual sale, with all the waiting around that entails.</p><p>If the start is at my max, I&#039;ll never leave a bid there again.</p><p><br /></p><p>One unfair treatment of absentee bids is if the auctioneer announces &#039;One more will take me out&#039; as this is unfair to the absentee bidder, who should be entitled to the same treatment as room bidders who certainly do not announce &quot;and that&#039;s my final bid&quot; when bidding.</p><p><br /></p><p>In about 30 years of auctions I can say that the ring as it was known has pretty well died out ages ago. For anyone to whom the ring is unknown, this was the practice of the main buyers nominating one of the&nbsp; group, and only one, to bid on items (although it might be a different member for different items, the essence was &#039;no competition&#039;)</p><p>After the sale, the ring&nbsp; meet at a local pub or other convenient place and hold the real auction (the knock out) among themselves. There, the items are offered to all and bids are made till the item sells to a high bidder. There is a system (and this is the really attractive part for ring members) whereby the additional money over and above the auction room bid, is divided up among all the bidders in the ring&#039;s auction, so it is possible to go to an auction, buy nothing and come home with a sum of money that justifies the day out.</p><p><br /></p><p>I have never been in a ring, but have on occasion agreed with another watch or clock dealer not to compete and knock the item out later. This is illegal and against the &#039;Auctions:bidding agreements Act of 1927 and 1969.</p><p><br /></p><p>The influx of private bidders, and amateur dealers and just too many strangers put paid to the ring, rather than any laws against it. Vendors saw their stuff sold at about half a fair auction value, the people who took the items home paid about 3/4 of the fair auction value, and everyone split the other 1/4.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

Your name or email address:

Do you already have an account?

• No, create an account now.
• Yes, my password is:
• Forgot your password?

Stay logged in