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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;bluumz, post: 1538481, member: 649&quot;]Interesting thread with lots of interesting info, though I second JM&#039;s apologies to the OP for the hijacking of it.</p><p>It would be most appropriate, as the presumed owner of the AbeAndMary dag, for [USER=13529]@Joseph Mason[/USER] to start his own thread for further discussion, assuming he is a true scholar willing to hear more dissenting opinions and is not closed-minded to debate.</p><p><br /></p><p>I stand by my own original opinion early in this thread: The couple in the AbeAndMary dag don&#039;t bear more than a superficial resemblance to Abe and Mary. It&#039;s actually difficult for me to see how someone could think otherwise, and I have yet to read anything more than loose conjecture that supports the A&amp;M claim.</p><p><br /></p><p>As a vintage clothing aficionado I appreciate the discussions on Mary&#039;s gowns. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/smilies/smile.png" class="mceSmilie" alt=":)" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>JM, I have just re-visited your dag&#039;s website...</p><p>Your first sentence states outright, &quot;This is the only known photograph of Abraham and Mary Todd Lincoln posed together...&quot; <i>KNOWN? </i>By whom? Apparently, only by you and your small group of supporters. You make it clear that the &quot;Lincoln community&quot; disagrees with your claim so, right off the bat, you misrepresent your dag and red flags are already waving about you and your item.</p><p><br /></p><p>Your website also demonstrates your unprofessionalism by showing that people who disagree with you are attacked and called names. In only your second paragraph, you disparage the &quot;Lincoln community&quot; and call them &quot;MORONS!!!&quot;, apparently because they disagree with your assessment(s) of the dag. Truly learned/interested/inquisitive/<i>impartial </i>investigators don&#039;t react in such an emotional way to dissenting opinions. Honest and thorough investigators welcome critique as an opportunity to further their own knowledge through any potential new avenues of research. So, by showing this type of reaction, you demonstrate that you have <i>not </i>been <i>impartially </i>investigating your dag&#039;s authenticity. You have now demonstrated an emotional (and likely financial) interest in it depicting A&amp;M, not an academic interest, and your investigative work appears to have been skewed by your belief/desire/need-to-prove that it is indeed A&amp;M.</p><p>Your obviously biased research technique is therefore apparent in just the first two paragraphs of your website and caused me, for one, to immediately suspect any info you put forward.</p><p><br /></p><p>By the way, the lace collar that the woman is wearing in your dag is not Point d&#039;Alencon lace, Alencon lace is a needle lace. Simply speaking, it is done with a needle and thread and has a very fine net background. It was/is extremely expensive. The lace collar that your woman is wearing appears to be a simple homemade-style crochet or tatted lace, much more doable/affordable for the average woman. In fact, ladies magazines of the day had instructions on how to make such lace accessories. I doubt that MTL would have worn such &quot;common&quot; lace.</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]227954[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>Making Alencon lace:</p><p><img src="https://www.normandie-chambres.co.uk/photos/alencon/alencon_lace_06.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>A finished piece of Alencon lace:</p><p><img src="https://www.normandie-chambres.co.uk/photos/alencon/alencon_lace_11.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Crochet and tatted lace examples:</p><p><img src="https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a6/18/e0/a618e09f9d265dc959ea9516b238c0d8.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><img src="https://i.etsystatic.com/9547937/r/il/24f117/1558389433/il_570xN.1558389433_ec3b.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>It is up to JM to prove that it is, not for others to prove that it isn&#039;t. He has not offered any <i>proof</i>, only opinions, postulations, and conjecture.</p><p><br /></p><p>Editing to add: Apparently there are contemporary accounts referring to MLT&#039;s dress as both &quot;blue&quot; and &quot;lavender&quot;. There actually is a color often referred to as &quot;lavender blue&quot; and it is a lighter color than depicted in the AbeAndMary dag. </p><p><img src="https://www.htmlcsscolor.com/preview/gallery/CDCDF7.png" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" />[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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