Featured Wondering about this broken brooch Cameo. Zeus?? Tested Silver

Wondering how old this Cameo could be? It was a brooch. Edge tested silver. Is it Zeus? In bad shape but worth anything? Also tried to clean it with soap & water and a toothbrush and it didn't work. Any ideas how to clean up the black marks?? Thanks in advance for your help. It is very thin, the cameo itself measures 3 1/2mm by approx. 4 mm.

 

Greek / Roman gods and goddesses are identified by their attributes. Grape leaves + pine cone-tipped staff = Dionysus / Bacchus.

Debora

 

A good helmet shell cameo of the wine god Dionysus/Bacchus, crowned in grape vine, his thyrsus (pine cone-headed staff) over his shoulder.

Go easy on him. He's not young & he has had a hard life. The shell has dried out & is getting fragile. I rarely receive an antique/vintage cameo that is not in need of cleaning. Helmet shell in particular can get remarkably grimy. To soften up the grunge & hydrate the shell, I usually put a piece in tepid water with a dab of dish washing liquid & allow it to soak for at least a few hours, often overnight. I use a child's soft toothbrush, paying special attention to the crevices, edges & anywhere else I have noticed accumulated crud.

If any spots remain after the toothbrush is applied energetically but not too heavily, the cameo goes back in the bath for at least another hour before having another go with the brush. Extensive or deeply embedded crud may require 3 or 4 rounds of this. Only rarely is there anything that will not come out. You then just have to make your peace with it. Think with patience you will be able to get more, probably all, off this guy.

Tried to work out whether any of the lines on the back added up to an incised signature but nothing came together. Most pieces are not signed.

Looks like the setting was once very pretty. The verdigris in spots on the back shows not all parts of the metal are silver. The remains of the setting are virtually valueless, maybe even a liability since they would have to be removed if someone wanted to turn the cameo back into jewellery & it is not a certainty that the cameo would survive the operation.

Positives: nice version of an always popular subject. Negatives: poor condition of shell; not in wearable condition; setting that has no meltdown value whose removal could be the end of the cameo. Might be best used by having a jeweller snip off the scroll-y bits, leaving the cameo in the basic toothed bezel, then framing it as a wall decoration.

Another presentation of this subject:

 

Thanks Debora & Bronwen for your help and knowledge. I have a few cameos, so I think I will do what you said Bronwen. That is clean it up and frame it along side 4 or 5 of my other cameos. Do I have to remove all of the verdigris before I put them all in one frame? If so, do I use mineral oil and a soft cloth on it?

 

You said he had some age. How old do you think he might be? Very interest when I researched a little more on him. Especially since this household likes our wine. :>)

 

Absolutely.
Verdigris spreads to other items.
Mineral oil will retard the spread.

Not sure what it will do to the cameo though. I doubt it would hurt it, but wait for Bronwen to reply.

 

Ok Thanks cluttercloset

 

Yes, you absolutely must get rid of the verdigris as much as you can. Think some of the other members can give you tips on how best to do this, but since it is a corrosive process that spreads, you do not want to let it go. If you think you might put your new wall decoration under glass, please read this (it's good to know anyway):

http://cameotimes.com/index.php/reference/byne-s-disease

The matter of oiling is personal preference. It can make aged shell look shinier. It does not protect against Byne's & makes the cameo a dirt magnet. If your new decoration will leave the shells exposed to the air, you may not want this. It also has to be redone periodically to maintain the effect.

I asked a dealer in seashells about this, since shell collectors have the same issues. Her recommended method was to let the shell/cameo soak overnight to rehydrate, add baby oil, which will form a thin layer on top of the water & spread itself around on the shell/cameo as you slowly draw it out. Then comes the soft, dry cloth.

Caring for cameos is an unsettled issue. Everyone has their own way. Some try to be as stringent as museum curators are, using deionized or at least distilled water instead of chlorinated tap water to clean; oiling/not oiling; trying to control humidity of air; trying to control acidity of surroundings. I am lax. Only a few of my cameos are ones a museum would actually want, and they are all hardstone. As beautiful as many of the others are, I am not charged with preserving the cultural heritage of a nation. If chlorine takes off a few molecules of shell... I am careful not to put them in the conditions that can lead to Byne's.

That's all I can think of right now. I'm a bit flustered and would have gotten back to you sooner, except a friend's cat who has been staying with me suddenly bolted out my opened apartment door, ran down the stairs to the lobby & before I could get her a neighbor came home and she ran out of the building & up a tree. You can see her and some of my other cameos on my introduction forum thread: https://www.antiquers.com/threads/time-for-cameos.21433/

I will either get back to you myself or ask one of the people with more general knowledge about jewellery to be in touch on the verdigris.

 

Well, here's what you absolutely must not do to get rid of the verdigris:
http://vintagecostumejewels.com/Info/How_to_Clean_Verdigris_From_Costume_Jewelry.htm
Never expose pearls, shell, coral or even lava cameos to vinegar, ammonia, bleach or any any kind of extra-strength cleaning product.

If you will have a jeweller remove the remaining fragment of the frame, some of the verdigris will go with it. If any is left, you might try what I did with the intaglio of a woman pointing upward shown on the second page of my intro forum thread. That piece is in a brass frame. Verdigris was not so much the problem; it was just nearly black in many places. I only cared about the intaglio & had no expectation the setting would ever have a passable appearance. Now it gleams.

Amazingly, rubbing in toothpaste & using the tip of a finger as the polishing tool did wonders. Think I probably also had at it with one of those disposable paper tarnish removing cloths. I do not always use toothpaste in my cameo cleaning arsenal. It is especially useful if a cameo needs sprucing up but it is inadvisable to submerse the entire piece in water, e.g., if the setting would allow water to get under the cameo but would also make it difficult to get it completely dry again. I use a baking soda formula toothpaste; toothpaste that is supposed to whiten teeth belongs on the list of other things never to use on cameos.

This is only occurring to me as I write. I have never seen it recommended anywhere and a museum curator would be horrified. If I had a piece that needed a small stubborn bit of verdigris removed from an accessible spot that was not going to be visible, and gentler methods were not succeeding, think I would take my little metal diamond dust nail file to it lightly and essentially sand the spot off until the metal was clean. Just a thought.

Feel free to ask anything else and I will be in touch if I have any other useful ideas. Please share it with us if you make something new with your cameos.

 

Verdigris can appear on silver of a lower fineness, like .800. When you soak the cameo, chance is the verdigris will disappear as well.
When a gentle cleaning method didn't work, I have resorted to taking it away very carefully with a pin.

 

Good advice. It is typical with cameos that the ornamental part of a setting can be silver or gold, but the innermost bezel & sometimes other parts out of sight will not be precious metal. Verdigris is oxidized copper, one of the components of brass. As we all know, when silver oxidizes, it can get nearly black.

 

Useful about the baby oil. I took tortoiseshell bits to the British Museum years ago, and they recommended a smear of olive oil, which works well.

 

And also of most silver alloys, like sterling silver. Luckily sterling does not contain enough copper to be susceptible to verdigris. Low grade (.800 etc.) silver alloys do.

 

Where was that mentioned, I missed it.

 

Not quite sure what you are asking, but baby oil was mentioned specifically in my first reply as part of a method for reviving & protecting shell that was given to me by someone who deals in shells. Some cameo collectors also like to oil newly cleaned shell pieces for the same reason.

 

We have so much to read on this forum, especially if you go from one thread to another. I am always missing things. Even my own things....
Cluttered probably has the same.

 

You are talking to a champion of 'How did I miss that?' & 'Where did I see that?' Doing what I do, I so often come across bits of information not needed at the moment, with no good way to save it & retrieve later, always imagining I'll remember, usually a delusion. Then, often a long time later, need for the info arises and the search is on.

 

Thanks again Bronwen. I have soaked it over night and then used a soft toothbrush on it. About 1/2 of the black marks have come off and I would say 90% of the verdigris is gone. So I have put it back in tepid water with small amount of dish soap and will let it soak again for a couple of hours. Thanks to much for sharing your knowledge. I will not look at my cameos the same way again. And most certainly when I put my cameos together I will share. :>)

 

That is so true Any Jewelry. My brain is getting older and will not hold on to the info the way it use to.