Log in or Sign up
Antiques Board
Home
Forums
>
Antique Forums
>
Ephemera and Photographs
>
Welcome to the "Steele Box"
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="mforder, post: 4106315, member: 20023"]<b><u>Item #25:</u></b></p><p><br /></p><p>I know this is a ephemera section this forum but because this was also in the box, actually in a small box on top of the "Steele Box" I wanted to post it here. It could be Ephemera related since it was used to print on paper.</p><p><br /></p><p>This is a engraving block with a date of Dec 7th, 1798. If you can make is out you will see that it says Mount Vernon on it. It also has a reference to someone named Gilmore and last if you look closely at the signature it says "G. Washington". It clearly looks to be the signature of the first president of the United States.</p><p><br /></p><p>Although it's not the original paper that had the original signature it still is interesting so it made me want to find out more. That's when I reached out to the George Washington Library / Mount Vernon museum. I sent them pics, and they were absolutely glad to help.</p><p><br /></p><p>(<b>NOTE:</b> Please know that I reversed the image on my computer so that you could read what it says)</p><p><br /></p><p>[ATTACH=full]330174[/ATTACH]</p><p><br /></p><p>It took a few weeks for them to get back to me and here is what they found. I think it's fascinating...</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><i>Dear Mark,</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>We think we have an answer of sorts for you on the copper plate you inquired about. We theorized that the plates were likely all print plates from the same publication, and my colleague Samantha Snyder was able to identify the book they were used to produce:</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>First hundred years of Sussex National Bank of Newton, New Jersey : a brief sketch of a century of service.. Sussex, N.J.?: unknown, 1918.</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>Samantha was able to download a few pages from the book to confirm that the images were included, which are attached. Unfortunately, I have not been able to download an e-version of the full publication, but you may be able to view it from this link with a subscription to ancestry.com: <a href="https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/11260/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/11260/" rel="nofollow">https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/11260/</a></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>There aren’t whole lot of hard copies available out there—according to Worldcat, just about a dozen in various formats: <a href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/first-hundred-years-of-sussex-national-bank-of-newton-new-jersey-a-brief-sketch-of-a-century-of-service/oclc/866485672/editions?editionsView=true&referer=br" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.worldcat.org/title/first-hundred-years-of-sussex-national-bank-of-newton-new-jersey-a-brief-sketch-of-a-century-of-service/oclc/866485672/editions?editionsView=true&referer=br" rel="nofollow">https://www.worldcat.org/title/first-hundred-years-of-sussex-national-bank-of-newton-new-jersey-a-brief-sketch-of-a-century-of-service/oclc/866485672/editions?editionsView=true&referer=br</a></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>Now, about the plate that purports to reproduce a bill from George Washington. The assessment of our team here was that the bill was probably a forgery. GW’s most famous forger was a man named Robert Spring, and forging checks was something he commonly did. By way of example, my colleague Dawn Bonner found this: <a href="https://www.raabcollection.com/george-washington-autograph/george-washington-signed-great-washington-forger-classic-hand-robert" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.raabcollection.com/george-washington-autograph/george-washington-signed-great-washington-forger-classic-hand-robert" rel="nofollow">https://www.raabcollection.com/george-washington-autograph/george-washington-signed-great-washington-forger-classic-hand-robert</a></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>We also know from this letter that GW was in Philadelphia on 7 December 1798, not at Mount Vernon as it says on the note: <a href="https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/06-03-02-0169" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/06-03-02-0169" rel="nofollow">https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/06-03-02-0169</a></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>That, and the fact that the name Robert Gilmer is not mentioned in GW’s financial papers, Indicates that this was indeed a forgery. Thing is, the First hundred years of Sussex National Bank book does not give any indication that the author(s) considered the note a forgery. And, if you compare the pictures you sent to the auction forgery, you may notice some significant differences. Still, given the evidence available, and the fact that Spring’s forging skills improved with practice, it seems clear that the original note from which the print plate was made was forged, probably by Spring later in his “career.” (Interestingly, the editors of the Franklin Papers identified a Robert Gilmer <a href="https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-09-02-0096" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-09-02-0096" rel="nofollow">here</a> as a 19th-century autograph collector, so perhaps Spring created the document for Gilmer as some sort of weird novelty souvenir.)</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>Anyway, I hope all this answers the bigger questions you may have had about these plates. Let me know if any additional information about these items comes your way. I’d be curious to know if the Morford family still has the original document in their possession.</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>Best,</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>Dana</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><b><i>Dana John Stefanelli, Ph.D.</i></b></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>Curator of Special Collections</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><b><i>______________________________________</i></b></p><p><br /></p><p><b><i>The Fred W. Smith National Library</i></b></p><p><br /></p><p><b><i>for the Study of George Washington</i></b></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>Mount Vernon Ladies’ Association</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>P.O. Box 3600, Mount Vernon, Virginia 22121</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>O: 703.667.3632 | F: 703.799.8651</i></p><p><i><br /></i></p><p><i>mountvernon.org/library</i>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="mforder, post: 4106315, member: 20023"][B][U]Item #25:[/U][/B] I know this is a ephemera section this forum but because this was also in the box, actually in a small box on top of the "Steele Box" I wanted to post it here. It could be Ephemera related since it was used to print on paper. This is a engraving block with a date of Dec 7th, 1798. If you can make is out you will see that it says Mount Vernon on it. It also has a reference to someone named Gilmore and last if you look closely at the signature it says "G. Washington". It clearly looks to be the signature of the first president of the United States. Although it's not the original paper that had the original signature it still is interesting so it made me want to find out more. That's when I reached out to the George Washington Library / Mount Vernon museum. I sent them pics, and they were absolutely glad to help. ([B]NOTE:[/B] Please know that I reversed the image on my computer so that you could read what it says) [ATTACH=full]330174[/ATTACH] It took a few weeks for them to get back to me and here is what they found. I think it's fascinating... [I]Dear Mark, We think we have an answer of sorts for you on the copper plate you inquired about. We theorized that the plates were likely all print plates from the same publication, and my colleague Samantha Snyder was able to identify the book they were used to produce: First hundred years of Sussex National Bank of Newton, New Jersey : a brief sketch of a century of service.. Sussex, N.J.?: unknown, 1918. Samantha was able to download a few pages from the book to confirm that the images were included, which are attached. Unfortunately, I have not been able to download an e-version of the full publication, but you may be able to view it from this link with a subscription to ancestry.com: [URL]https://www.ancestry.com/search/collections/11260/[/URL] There aren’t whole lot of hard copies available out there—according to Worldcat, just about a dozen in various formats: [URL]https://www.worldcat.org/title/first-hundred-years-of-sussex-national-bank-of-newton-new-jersey-a-brief-sketch-of-a-century-of-service/oclc/866485672/editions?editionsView=true&referer=br[/URL] Now, about the plate that purports to reproduce a bill from George Washington. The assessment of our team here was that the bill was probably a forgery. GW’s most famous forger was a man named Robert Spring, and forging checks was something he commonly did. By way of example, my colleague Dawn Bonner found this: [URL]https://www.raabcollection.com/george-washington-autograph/george-washington-signed-great-washington-forger-classic-hand-robert[/URL] We also know from this letter that GW was in Philadelphia on 7 December 1798, not at Mount Vernon as it says on the note: [URL]https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/06-03-02-0169[/URL] That, and the fact that the name Robert Gilmer is not mentioned in GW’s financial papers, Indicates that this was indeed a forgery. Thing is, the First hundred years of Sussex National Bank book does not give any indication that the author(s) considered the note a forgery. And, if you compare the pictures you sent to the auction forgery, you may notice some significant differences. Still, given the evidence available, and the fact that Spring’s forging skills improved with practice, it seems clear that the original note from which the print plate was made was forged, probably by Spring later in his “career.” (Interestingly, the editors of the Franklin Papers identified a Robert Gilmer [URL='https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-09-02-0096']here[/URL] as a 19th-century autograph collector, so perhaps Spring created the document for Gilmer as some sort of weird novelty souvenir.) Anyway, I hope all this answers the bigger questions you may have had about these plates. Let me know if any additional information about these items comes your way. I’d be curious to know if the Morford family still has the original document in their possession. Best, Dana [/I] [B][I]Dana John Stefanelli, Ph.D.[/I][/B] [I] Curator of Special Collections [/I] [B][I]______________________________________[/I][/B] [B][I]The Fred W. Smith National Library[/I][/B] [B][I]for the Study of George Washington[/I][/B] [I] Mount Vernon Ladies’ Association P.O. Box 3600, Mount Vernon, Virginia 22121 O: 703.667.3632 | F: 703.799.8651 mountvernon.org/library[/I][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Antiques Board
Home
Forums
>
Antique Forums
>
Ephemera and Photographs
>
Welcome to the "Steele Box"
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Registered Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...
