Victorian Mourning Plates?

Hi Everyone,

Can I get your help with these please? I have two questions:

1. Who made them?
2. Are they mourning plates?

The original seller described them as mourning plates but I don’t know if that’s just the association with black amethyst glass? I know the Victorians were very ‘particular’ about their mourning but are these the sort of things one would have displayed in the parlour during a time of mourning?

Each plate measures 22.5cm in diameter with a depth of 1.5cm.

The plates have the Victorian kite mark which reads: Glass, 29th July 1876, parcel number 6.

I found it interesting that each plate is marked twice, once on the base and once on the lattice/rim.

From my research I know Sowerby and Davidson were producing black amethyst glass at this time but have managed to get no further.

Thanks for looking and any help you can give.

 

I found this: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Henry+Greener&_sd=1876&_ed=1876&_hb=
If it's yours, it says dessert service. I see them in white and also turquoise on the worthpoint site.

 

Greener makes sense - and I'd agree on a dessert service. I've honestly never heard of mourning plates.

 

Must admit, found myself wondering how one would use a 'mourning plate' - present some tidbits on it, murmuring, "These were my dear departed's favorite treat, served on black in their remembrance." Perhaps hung on the wall, mentioning often that the loved one was so very fond of grapes. Nonsense, really...

~Cheryl

 

<snicker>

 

I feel the same way about using bumpy plates to serve anything. Doesn't seem workable, using a fork, digging dessert out of the crevices? Not a good idea. I would guess that they were just decorative.

 

I just looked at the link and if they can really be used as dessert plates, then why not at a funeral? Everything at a funeral is basically black anyway.

 

Dessert in Victorian times generally meant fruit. There's a hierarchy of words for courses, including dessert and pudding. Dessert was considered non U when used for sweet puddings. So, it's feasible these were for serving fruit.

 

Thank you very much everyone, especially @janetpjohn !

 

There is a turquoise version pictured here:
https://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/218871-henry-greener-blue-turquoise-plate-sunde

And also one in white as the first picture in this message board, with a turquoise one further down the page:
https://www.glassmessages.com/index.php?topic=65644.0

 

Thank you @Figtree3 , I had seen that turquoise one but not the white one. Haven’t managed to find any other examples in black amethyst. May dare to start using the word ‘rare’

 

Yes, good point about the fruit. BTW, what does "non U" mean?

I love seeing the looks on people's faces when I explain victorian "pudding", not Jello, for sure. I saw a show on PBS where they explained about the 12 Days of Christmas in England and made the dishes they ate then, at the time of Henry Viii. The hostess was Lucy Worsley and she had to sample the various foods. The producer was obviously having fun making her try the particularly disgusting ones. On the other hand, she really liked the mead and the beers (or ales?). I would have given those a try too, but NOT most of the food. The show was really enjoyable.

 

Pam, I've enjoyed all the shows I've seen that Lucy Worley has hosted. Her voice DOES drive me crazy sometimes, but she is always so enthusiastic that I can't help liking her shows!

 

Ah, non U. It means a word or practice that was rather lower or even middle class rather than upper class. Often pretentious words. cf John Betjeman, who I shall post below.

Toilet is non U, loo and lavatory and even bog are fine. My rather Edwardian grandmama, for she was such a woman, spoke of looking glasses rather than mirrors, and we never ever talked of serviettes, but aways napkins. Knaves in packs of cards, never a jack. And lounge as a word for a room was unspeakable. Fish knives are naff, as is cutting a bread roll, one tears it. Eat asparagus with your fingers of course.

I still cannot use some terms wrongly, and that includes the fine distinctions between dessert and pudding. The use of sweets to mean such things is a sin.

This is a joy.

How To Get On In Society by John Betjeman

Phone for the fish knives, Norman
As cook is a little unnerved;
You kiddies have crumpled the serviettes
And I must have things daintily served.

Are the requisites all in the toilet?
The frills round the cutlets can wait
Till the girl has replenished the cruets
And switched on the logs in the grate.

It's ever so close in the lounge dear,
But the vestibule's comfy for tea
And Howard is riding on horseback
So do come and take some with me

Now here is a fork for your pastries
And do use the couch for your feet;
I know that I wanted to ask you-
Is trifle sufficient for sweet?

Milk and then just as it comes dear?
I'm afraid the preserve's full of stones;
Beg pardon, I'm soiling the doileys
With afternoon tea-cakes and scones.

 

@Ownedbybear Ah, I see! Fenton Glass made a cake stand that had a pressed design on the face of the plate. Having dug cake remains out of the cracks on vintage cake stands a number of times, I still don't like bumpy plates for serving anything, at all. Had to take an old toothbrush to many of them. Not terribly sanitary either. I guess fruit could just lay there, but still.

Thanks for the lesson! Always want to be proper, LOL!

 

<snicker>

https://jeremynicholas.com/2013/05/months-parody-may-society-sir-john-betjeman/

 

Sowerby, England is a possible contender.

here is another by the factory.



Although Sowerby designed & produced some incredible examples of their own, they also had a habit of purchasing, exchanging and using other factories moulds under licence. Including certain pattern-types by Fenton, and European factories too. Removing the signatures, makers marks and/or numbers was also common place, but by no means was this done illegally or in order to dupe. Sowerby, were not the only factory either that adopted this practice.... It was far more cost effective to sell a mould to another factory overseas than to ship containers of glass items!

 

Thanks @ritzyvintage . Going from the link provided by janetpjohn and the examples from Figtree3 I'm fairly certain we can attribute these to Henry Greener. I wasn't aware of him but to be fair, I know little about many things.

There is some information here http://www.glassencyclopedia.com/Greenersglass.html

 

He was one of the great North Eastern glass makers: Sunderland. There's a long history there.

 

Later becoming Jobling, known for the development PYREX

The glassworks throughout England during the Victorian period were responsible for creating over 650 different colour-types alone. Particularly in Stourbridge. Many of these factories survived through WWII whilst numerous important factories throughout other parts of Europe were demolished during bombing raids.