UK/GB symbols help, please

Discussion in 'Silver' started by bluumz, Dec 1, 2023.

  1. bluumz

    bluumz Quite Busy

    This is from the handle of a Victorian commemorative 1890s jubilee sterling silver spoon. Not my photo, sorry about the poor quality! This American is trying to understand the symbols, which appear to be (and represent):

    Three lions (England)
    Tudor rose (England)
    Lion rampant (Scotland)
    Lily (???)
    Harp (Ireland)
    Shamrock (Ireland)

    What about that lily? Since both England and Ireland are already represented twice, is the lily somehow associated with Scotland? Googling seems to indicate that it, too, is representative of Ireland. And what happened to Wales? I've found that the daffodil is a symbol of Wales but what's on the spoon handle really looks like a lily. (There are no symbols are on the bowl of the spoon.)

    Thoughts and opinions welcomed, thanks!

    Screenshot (34).png
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
  2. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Harp for Wales; thistle for Scotland.
     
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  3. bluumz

    bluumz Quite Busy

    But there's no thistle on the spoon. :confused:
    (EDIT: I NOW SEE THE THISTLE!!! :facepalm: I WASN'T SEEING THE SHAPE PROPERLY AND INTERPRETED IT AS A LILY!!! SO WE APPEAR TO HAVE TWO SYMBOLS FOR ENGLAND, TWO FOR SCOTLAND, AND TWO FOR IRELAND. POOR WALES HAS BEEN LEFT OUT. EACH OF THE LANDS IS REPRESENTED BY THEIR SYMBOL IN A SHIELD, FOLLOWED BY THEIR FLOWER/PLANT:
    ENGLAND: THREE LIONS IN SHIELD AND TUDOR ROSE.
    SCOTLAND: RAMPANT LION IN SHIELD AND THISTLE.
    IRELAND: HARP IN SHIELD AND SHAMROCK.)
    The harp is on Ireland's Coat of Arms. It's doesn't appear to be on anything representative of Wales, even though the Welsh do apparently claim the harp as their national instrument.

    Screenshot (35).png
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
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  4. daveydempsey

    daveydempsey Moderator Moderator

    Thistle is for Scotland, Wales usually has a Leek.
     
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  5. silvermakersmarks

    silvermakersmarks Well-Known Member

    Wales is historically normally omitted when groups of the home nations are put together, probably because it has never been a country in its own right. The symbols on this spoon are therefore the heraldic symbol and national flower of each of the 3 nations. Of course we wouldn't be able to (or want to) omit Wales now.
     
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  6. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    full bladder........:hilarious:
     
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  7. bluumz

    bluumz Quite Busy

    Thanks everyone, my eyes just weren't seeing what was there! :rolleyes:
    I've bought the spoon as it was very reasonably priced, the seller's blurry photos are below.
    It's silver: Birmingham 1896, and made (I presume) to commemorate Queen Victoria's diamond jubilee in 1897. Something to add to my small QV collection! Oddly, it doesn't actually mention or depict her, it just has a "60" under the crown.
    Size is 5 3/8 inches and it has what appears to be a rather sizeable bowl, so it's not a tiny souvenir spoon. Tea caddy spoon? I don't know the weight. Made by Cornelius Desormeaux Saunders & James Francis Hollings (Frank) Shepherd (thank you @silvermakersmarks for your wonderfully helpful website!)

    qvspoon1.jpg qvspoon2.jpg qvspoon3.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
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  8. Ownedbybear

    Ownedbybear Well-Known Member

    Wales can also be a daffodil.
     
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  9. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Post-Roman Wales was split into various principalities, which were united in the 13th century in the Principality of Wales, under Llywellyn the Great. The Principality was a state, and officially recognized as such by its more powerful neighbour, but after a few decades it was conquered by Edward I of England.
    But I suppose the importance of floral emblems dates from a later period.;)
    It seems some Welsh found their leek a bit too mundane, and thought the daffodil could compete in beauty with the rose and thistle.;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
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  10. daveydempsey

    daveydempsey Moderator Moderator

    I still call my Welsh mate Leeky Jones rather than Taff or Daff:D
     
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  11. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    a nice addition to your collection....:happy::happy:
     
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