Thrift store antique violin - label reads Nicola Amati fecit Cremora titulo Santa Teresia 1747?

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by journeymagazine, Mar 28, 2023.

  1. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

    I bought this at a local thrift store yesterday. It was at only $24.95 because it's in poor condition, but when I read the label (Nicola Amati fecit Cremora titulo Santa Teresia 1747(?) - not sure of the last 2 numbers) & googled it I found 1 with the same label was auctioned by Christie's!
    I also read the the Amati family were famous for their violins and they are rare today. It also said they may be labeled with Nicola, Nicoli and Nicolas - but I saw very few with the Nicola name like mine has.
    Did I find a real Nicola Amati violin?
    What does that date read that's written in hand on label? (the 7's look like 4's!) - is this really from the 1700's??!
    Is this worth anything in the condition it's in?
    Thank you for any information!

    MUSIC VIOLIN NICOLA AMATI FECIT CREMONA + SUB TITULO SANTA TERESIA 1BAA.jpg MUSIC VIOLIN NICOLA AMATI FECIT CREMONA + SUB TITULO SANTA TERESIA 2AA.jpg MUSIC VIOLIN NICOLA AMATI FECIT CREMONA + SUB TITULO SANTA TERESIA 2AA_AA.jpg MUSIC VIOLIN NICOLA AMATI FECIT CREMONA + SUB TITULO SANTA TERESIA 2BAA.jpg MUSIC VIOLIN NICOLA AMATI FECIT CREMONA + SUB TITULO SANTA TERESIA 5A_AA.jpg MUSIC VIOLIN NICOLA AMATI FECIT CREMONA + SUB TITULO SANTA TERESIA 5AA.jpg
    MUSIC VIOLIN NICOLA AMATI FECIT CREMONA + SUB TITULO SANTA TERESIA 7AAX.jpg MUSIC VIOLIN NICOLA AMATI FECIT CREMONA + SUB TITULO SANTA TERESIA 7BAA.jpg
    MUSIC VIOLIN NICOLA AMATI FECIT CREMONA + SUB TITULO SANTA TERESIA 7CAAZ.jpg MUSIC VIOLIN NICOLA AMATI FECIT CREMONA + SUB TITULO SANTA TERESIA 9AA.jpg
     
  2. moreotherstuff

    moreotherstuff Izorizent

    Don't believe everything you read in violins.
     
  3. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    The bow (not necessarily this one) is often more valuable than the violin.
     
    smallaxe, sabre123, kyratango and 2 others like this.
  4. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    Nicolo Amati (an important 17th century violin maker) appears to have used the Latin form of his name - Nicolaus Amatus - on his labels. Yours is almost certainly a false label.

    https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/503057

    A little blog article from a violin repairer about false labels in violins:

    http://masterhandviolin.com/Blog3.html

    Also:
    "Violin labels
    The label might tell you who made your violin. You can find a label inside the (usually) left hand f-hole in the violin. Not all violins have labels, and you may have to blow away the dust and move the violin under the light to see whether yours does. Many labels are fake, but even fake labels might give an idea of who made the violin. Amati has a few examples of labels in their Makers’ Archive to compare your own against, but be aware that it does not take long to copy a label and put it in a violin – it is something that has been going on for centuries."
    https://amati.com/blog/valuations/who-made-my-violin#:~:text=You can find a label,to see whether yours does.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
  5. charlie cheswick

    charlie cheswick Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't pay much attention to violin labels, more to the quality of the violin

    This one looks pretty bad without considering the damage

    A quality violin would have a solid ebony fingerboard

    Not a dyed whatever wood that fingerboard has, wouldn't have broke so easily either
     
  6. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

    Same name /tag was on one sold by Christie's - so I figured the odds were better than a Powerball lottery ticket!
     
    charlie cheswick and johnnycb09 like this.
  7. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    From the looks of it, you have purchased a genuine wall-hanger. I'm no expert, but thousands of violins with honorific labels were made in the Alpine region of Europe in the late 19th to early 20th centuries. Some were better than others.
     
    kyratango and aaroncab like this.
  8. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

    I figured the odds were leaning that way! But for $25 it was like buying a lottery ticket - not expecting a winner, but oh how you hope it is!
     
  9. smallaxe

    smallaxe Well-Known Member

    Appears to be an inexpensive mass produced German violin with a serious neck issue. As someone mentioned, you should check out the bow for value. They sometimes surprise..
     
    aaroncab likes this.
  10. evelyb30

    evelyb30 Well-Known Member

    Thirded. Can't hurt - and it might make your money back, or it might really pay out.
     
    aaroncab likes this.
  11. journeymagazine

    journeymagazine Well-Known Member

    How do you tell a good bow from a 'factory' bow?
    It is made with horse hair, but besides the little mother of pearl(?) decoration on each side of where you would hold it, there's no identifying marks that I can see?
     
    Figtree3 likes this.
  12. smallaxe

    smallaxe Well-Known Member

    The easiest way is to take it to a luthier or some other person that knows violins. There are features such as weight, balance, wood type, and probably most important, the maker. But there are cheap imitations that are marked as if they were made by famous makers. That makes it hard for a lay person to properly assess value. This site sells quality antique bows, and shows many examples in various value ranges. https://bishopstrings.com/bows/violin-bows/
    My wife inherited two violins, and with one was a valuable Albert Nurnberger bow. Unfortunately, about 50 years ago someone that doesn't know about violins tightened the bow to play with it, and then did not de-tension it before putting it away. Over time, the horsehair contracts, causing even more tension. The bow broke at the point where the wood is the thinnest, rendering it nearly valueless, even when repaired.
     
    Figtree3, all_fakes and Houseful like this.
  13. all_fakes

    all_fakes Well-Known Member

    OT anecdote re bows: a couple years back I was looking for a bow to go with a violin I'd just bought; found a nice Chinese-made bow that felt good to me and was adequate for my playing abilities and matched the value of the violin in question. The dealer said "just for fun would you like to try this one?" and handed me a vintage French bow priced at $10,000. It was a darn good bow, I must say - but if I had to do a blindfold test I would never have been able to tell it had that kind of value.
     
    Figtree3, journeymagazine and Boland like this.
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