We were shown this cast-iron cannon, Royal Navy-issue ca. 1790, in a truck bed. Any feet in the photos are not mine, btw. Cannon is a Blomefield-pattern 4-pounder. Length 6.5 ft, estimated wt 1300 lbs, bore about 3.25 in. We can get it for what we consider full retail price so we'd be getting it for our business's reference collection, not to sell since there's "no fun left in it" as we vendors say about things priced at the top of the market. This is the only cannon of that type and caliber I've ever seen so it would be a nice addition from that aspect. My concern has to do with the condition of the cast iron at and near the surface of the piece-it doesn't look stable to me. It needs work in that we'd want to strip it down to bare iron, then repaint it black, but we don't know how much of the surface is unstable, and how thick the layer of scale (rust) is, and whether if, when that is removed, the cannon will still look good enough to justify the investment. Also, if the iron has salt or certain other contaminants in it, we'd need to do a lot of desalinazition, electrolysis, etc. consuming time, space, funds, etc. Any thoughts? More pix to come
This is an area that most of us have no expertise in. Speaking as a collector only. I would try to determine the cost of restoration. Then go back to the seller and try to lower the cost by at least half the cost of the restoration. I'd try for more but settle at half. Basically, it comes down to how much you want this item for your own collection, and how much you are willing to spend to have it. As you've stated, you won't be able to make a profit.
How rare are they? If you are prepared to pay full retail, you should probably wait for one that isn't in such questionable condition. If you are going to take a chance on one that may have insurmountable condition issues, you ought to get a very sizable reduction in price to compensate for the risk.
Are extremely rare but not something we must have. Seller said he might do restoration himself if it didn't sell soon. I'm ok with that because we should be able to see the bare iron during his restoration, if it ever happens. If he'd let me de-scale the muzzle area it'd probably answer my questions. In the close-up pic of the muzzle you can see enuf to guess at thickness of the dark scale layer, looks like maybe 1/8 inch or so. If its removal left a smooth even surface that'd be nice.
Ship surveyers use an ultrasonic tool to measure rust thickness on steel ships. The technology may not be transferable as the measuremet also includes the thickness of the remaining steel. Actually, it looks pretty good to me, the amount of fine detail such as the cypher and the War Office broad arrow makes me think the rust is mainly superfical. It is hard to say what a retail price is unless there are others to compare it with. Once you have it you set the retail price. Some areas such as one trunnion appear much more eroded, it may have sat somewhere damp for a long time. If you are in two minds I'd make an offer and walk away. It's up to them at that point. A wad of cash can have a better effect than a check. Make the wad 20s instead of hundreds, it looks like more money even to people who know it is not. The old monkey brain still says more is better
Here is a thought. One way or the other someone is going to try to restore this. Tell the seller to have it blasted before you decide. He would have to have it done regardless if he sold it to you or not.
I'd suggest a wire brush, not sand, shot or grit blasting unless you want a new looking 200 year old cannon. I'd also not leave it up to chance just what the vendor might think an appropriate method of cleaning, over restoration of antiques is rife.
Thanks, that all helps with the thought process. I guess I really like "sole survivor of a type" items and tend to win pieces that are in that category when bidding at auction. This is the only Blomefield-pattern RN 4-pounder I know of, but there are many survivors of the earlier Armstrong pattern. Anyway I would like seller to take the surface down at least at the muzzle to see how much decent metal remains. Will suggest that today. Will also suggest that we'd buy if price came down to match my view of the condition, but he has plenty of money and I don't think that'll help. The cannons we buy fall into two categories, one being interesting or historic types of cannon in very good or better condition, and the other being those of any type and any condition having a valuable, documented provenance. This British cannon has no known provenance and seller is as usual very vague about that, so the only motivation here is to collect a piece of that particular type, but we don't feel very strongly motivated in that direction. Still, all of the major regrets I'm still kicking myself about, decades later, involve items I passed up rather than anything purchased using poor judgment.
@afantiques I have used glass bead to blast cast and it isnt as harsh as sand. You can also use pecan (If memory serves me) shell media which is easier on the object being blasted.
In this life you can have anything you want , but you can't have everything you want ! KOMO The time to buy is when an offer presents itself. American Pickers Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention. Frank Sinatra
One air tool we use to de-scale metal is sometimes called a needle gun. The pistol grip part is same as on a pneumatic chisel but the business end is a dozen steel rods sticking out. We used these extensively in the Navy to remove rust and paint from steel surfaces. They hog lots of air so unless u have a large compressor u may have to stop frequently for compressor to catch up. Pic in this ad https://www.amazon.com/Sunex-SX246-...92708&sr=8-1&keywords=pneumatic+needle+scaler
Well I think now I'm subconsciously extending my indecision hoping someone else will buy it and make my problem go away!
My rule: If in doubt - Don't. Can only think of 2 items since 1978, that I passed on and now wish I hadn't.
Sometimes it feels like Ralph Kovel is sitting on your shoulder whispering "You always regret the things you don't buy!"
If you did do what you suggested above for cleaning it up, would you lose that lovely Crown & Script insignia???? To me, that's an important part of it.......JMHO!!!!!!
Present owner has decided to conserve it and I think he's using hand tools so there shouldn't be an issue with disfiguring things. The royal cypher as already partly gone due to past corrosion, but as you noticed it still has the basic appearance required. Notice the little 3 entwined on the upper left of the cypher, for Mad King George aka George III of course. I was puzzled by my inability to find the weight marking; usually on similar British cannons it is a very large, bold set of six numerals in three pairs, separated by hyphens, on top of the breech, indicating hundred weights and fractions. Not there on this piece! After a bit of book- research, I learned the weight may be marked inconspicuously under the cascabel (button thingy on rear end) so I asked the owner to look there.
