Some Cloisonne for identification

I have these two plates. The larger one is 7 1/8" diameter and i am sure it is Japanese and probably Mid century or a little older.
This one the rims and wires are silver.
The smaller one measures an odd 3 5/8" diameter. This one has me stumped? My initial thought was earlier Chinese, but ill let you all give me your thoughts on this one.
Mikey

 

Both Chinese imo, white one late 20th century, blue one 3rd quarter 20th century

 

Can't help, but those are very pretty, Mikey!

 

I think the small dish dates more towards the first half of the 20th c, Republic period.

 

Yes I've seen several being listed as 1900-1940.
Thanks
Mikey

 

If you look for this type of item you will find those which have 'Made in China' on them, which is typical of post war production. You can also find them with gold stickers on.

You can't rely on ebay listings as sellers push dates to the earliest possible, or plain just copy wrong information from some other seller. There are post war cloisonne dragon bowls on there listed as 'ming'!

 

This one is rather similar to the small dish and has a typical "CHINA" mark of the early 20th c.

 

That kind of agrees with what I am saying, as it is not common to find Latin script on Chinese items pre WW2. I guess some pieces could go back into the 1930's but they would be the minority. I have had plenty of these over the years and not yet seen any evidence to suggest they are earlier than mid century. I've not found any catalogues, export details etc to place them earlier.