Silver hallmark- can someone help with identification please

Hi. Im trying to find out what this hallmark mean. Any help would be highly appriciated

 

They are all Russian 84 zolotnik marks, which means they are .875 silver fineness.
The item at the top is from St Petersburg, the pointing hand looks like a Moscow mark. The other one I can't quite discern.

 

Thank you.I didnt come across a simillar box,it is music box(underneath the silver plate) Any idea of its origins?

 

Very nice, Magdonna, it all makes sense now. It is Jewish, with Hebrew text, possibly the Ten Commandments, and the silver pointer is called a Yad. I already suspected I was looking at a Yad. (Well, I was anyway, since it means hand, we use the word in Dutch too sometimes. )
@komokwa can explain more about the item.

It would make sense that all components were made in the same city, could you post close-ups of the marks?

 

Grachev Brothers
(1866-1918)



The firm, producing gold and silver items was established in St. Petersburg in 1866 by Gavriil Petrovich Grachev, who had previously worked for Gasse.

At his death in 1873 his sons Mikhail, Simon and Grigory took over the company and renamed it into Grachev Brothers. Each brother used to mark the artworks he produced with his own mark, as the firm didn’t have a mark on its own.

The firm participated in several Russian and international fairs, such as he Pan-Russian Industrial and Art Exhibition in 1896, the Nordic Exhibition in Copenhagen in 1888 where it was awarded the gold medal, and the Columbian Exposition in Chicago in 1893.

From 1886 the firm was made official supplier of the King of Denmark and in 1892, the firm was awarded the title of purveyor of the Imperial Court and was allowed to use the Imperial Warrant (a double-headed eagle) as part of its hallmark.

Few years later Mikhail and Gavriil were made honorary hereditary citizens.

The brothers produced silver toilet, dining and tea sets, objects of vertu and jewellery especially in the traditional Russian style, using different techniques, such as enamel. Some of their items were retailed by Fabergé.

The business closed in March 1918

 

Don't like to deal with Russian silver because it's a very complicated area, and one filled with fakery, especially Judaica - but this item just looks wrong to me.

Can't say I've seen anything like it - what is it? Why is a somewhat crudely made yad placed in a space under what is to my eye, a rather modern looking depiction of Moses in a bold Magen-David (should really be two triangles forming the hexagram), on the top of what looks to be an also somewhat crudely made music box? Is it placed in some sort of suede case? And what song does the mechanism play? Why would a supplier to royal courts produce an item with such crudely done saw-work and engraving, and why would they place their marks on the front of the tablet rather than on the interior? Why would there be exposed screws attaching it to the box? Since they don't appear to be marked, would guess the other metals are brass and copper, seems an odd choice - and personally, can't recall seeing Russian silver with sawtooth bezels like those on the smallest glass cabochons.

Really dislike being negative, but this looks to me like a relatively recent fantasy item with spurious marks...

http://www.silvercollection.it/dictionaryrussianfakes.html

http://www.silvercollection.it/pagina37.html

~Cheryl

 

Good point, it is too crude for a high end maker.
As you say, there are a lot of Russian silver fakes. I stay away from antique Russian silver.
Kaukasus niello is a different story for me, it is just too attractive, and if I find something for a ridiculous bargain....

 

Thank you for your help.Yes,Im not sure if it is real deal as it doesnt have that wow effect.It is very intersting tho, never seen a music boz of this type

 

I like. .How that done.Very interesting . Iouri.

 

like you, i know the pieces.....but not the whole.
The wear to the box does indeed speak of some age......
My 1st thought ....and it's a WAG.....would be a Bat Mitzva gift...!!
& I can't help thinking it's OOAK...
What tune does it play ???

 

Agree. Genuine piece IMO

 

I understand all that Dragon has to say......
but I still kind of find it to be ...... beautiful...

 

The dragons look a bit out of place for the theme.

 

A dragon never looks out of place to me. I know, just me....

 

Dragons? Where are the dragons? I want to see dragons too!


Suppose it's individual perception, but I see little wear to the odd case/base/cover, do see considerably soiled suede (doesn't take long to do that), I see only the Grachev Bros. maker's mark w/Imperial Warrant on the rosy metal bit on the hasp, along with a single unclear mark on the proper Magen-David; and the plate for the winding key appears to read 'ЗАВОДЪ', which seems to translate to 'FACTORY' in both Russian and Bulgarian (where I suspect this may have been created), and again, a bit odd for something supposedly produced by a high-end maker.

The marks on the tablets are incomplete, missing the St. Petersburg town mark, don't have time to check my Russian references at the moment (and am unlikely to delve into them today), but a quick internet search doesn't find an appropriate St. Petersburg assayer with those initials, but does find a 'T·K' or 'Т·К' mark used by Timofey Kopanev, an Odessa assayer of the period; and as AJ pointed out, the partial marks on the yad and the strap-mount differ, the yad could be Moscow, but looks a bit more like Vilnius to me, and on the mount perhaps an older Tiflis mark (the metal around those mount marks looks very odd).




https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55087



Vilnius:



Tiflis:


https://www.925-1000.com/Frussia_city_04.html


Perhaps someone might find some information to convince me that what I see is not troublesome at the least...

~Cheryl

 

That is made by Grachev Brothers.May be something ?
Икона «Святая Зинаида»
в серебряном окладе и футляре,
размер 24,3х17,2 см. с 1899 по 1908 г.,
оклад серебро 84 пробы,
фирма Братьев Грачевых

 

I was looking at the engraving and they were staring back at me.

 

Rough translation:




It's a lovely piece, and I'd think genuine - but not really seeing any valid comparison between a well-crafted silver icon in a simple wooden case with moire lining (which may or may not be original) and the OP's item with the odd suede case/base/whatever integrated into the whole of the piece...

Here's a little bit larger pic:




~Cheryl