Rouen / Poterat Family

My last post of the day in this forum, I promise! : -)

In researching one plate I have come across some interesting information that *might* be relevant to another plate I have.

It seems this may be the Poterat family coat of arms, used on an item dated between 1612-1687.

https://museedelaceramique.fr/en/oeuvres/plate-with-the-poterat-coat-of-arms-presumed



I had never been able to find anything similar to the cost of arms on a plate I have. But this has some similarities. Both have a “coat of arms in blue with a chevron and three five-pointed gold stars”. Also, my plate is marked Rouen. So some relation to the Poterat family makes a lot of sense.

What surrounds it is very different on the two items. Could it change that much in 100 years? From what I have been able to research my plate would be significantly later than 1687. Or maybe the cost of arms changed due to marriages?

 

From our perspective things were so different when you go back that far in time that we forget how little knowledge was around and how difficult communication was. In the 17th century things were often produced from a verbal description which is why things like lions and zebras often look so wrong in depictions. So the plate may have been produced from a sketch, a correct technical reproduction or simply a verbal discussion. This can usually be determined by researching the house as there will usually be a correct official coat of arms on documents for example. Coats of arms do also change, due to political issues, war and family simply wanting a change. If lucky this will be documented in a museum online or the house documents may be published online, otherwise it means going to the house and searching the documents!

The plate being held up with the green mark looks mid to late 19th century, by this time all sorts of offshoots will have happened, families branch. People also make up their own from elements they have seen elsewhere and like. In the 19th century 'New Money' would have to make up their own crests as their families were not historic and didn't come with centuries of documentation, just oral tradition passed down with all their faults, errors and bias.

I'm not trying to put you off looking, but be aware that in most cases there simply isn't a possibility of arriving at an answer, there can only be speculation as no records exist to provide confirmation. It's why such 19th century pieces have a general price range and those rare pieces with provenance backed up by history shine so far above in price. It is fun searching and speculating, just don't be disappointed if you can't come up with anything firm, this is case most times.

 

Thank you @CeBCA.

I may never find an exact match, but I’m satisfied that it is likely the Rouen family seal.

This plate is similar in design and the seller refers to it as the Rouen family seal.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313531323437?hash=item48ffec542d:g:abcAAOSwYiBgbE6C

Interestingly the plate listed above is made by Fourmaintraux - like my other plate. Both my plates were purchased at a flea market in Maine on the same day but from different sellers. It’s possible both dealers bought from the same local estate sale.

From this eBay listing:
https://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/e...8&pm=1&ds=0&t=1598052274000&ver=0&cspheader=1

“The French faience pottery of the late 19th and early 20th Century revived a long history of the potters’ art, and embodied an artistic and social statement of the times. The earlier historic decors of Nevers, Rouen, Moustiers, Strasbourg, and Marseilles were captured and reproduced by factories at Quimper, Desvres, Boulogne-sur-Mer, Malicorne, and others.....In the 1870’s the heyday of Desvres pottery began as the Fourmaintraux family of potters perfected their craft in the style and manor of old Rouen....Desvres pottery is known for a creamy white background decorated with bright “Delft” blue, brilliant lemon yellow, iron red and sage green.”

Perhaps the “Rouen” on my plate is more of a pattern name. The mark (still not identified) is the maker. It’s an F - so maybe a later version of the Fourmaintraux mark???

I love how these two old plates helped me learn about each other.

I wonder (without much evidence :- ) if they were from the collection of a local Fourmaintraux collector, separated at an estate sale, and reunited when I purchased them from the two separate dealers.