Retablo with Spanish text - can anyone translate? Man caught between ghost & witch

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by gimbler-dave, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. gimbler-dave

    gimbler-dave Well-Known Member

    I've run a rough translation using google, but wonder if someone who knows Spanish can give me a better translation? Here's the rough google results (I'm sure I got some of the letters wrong):

    "In the year 1922 befell the tropezak Octavian Padilla is a lost soul of a woman. Obtain immediate scared invoke sto nino de atocha who saved him from so between witch and scare away a apayision ugly. Aquadeca the Fabok in Chilapa Guerrero, Mr Padilla Octavian"

    Thanks! ... Dave
    db_retablo_1.JPG
     
  2. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Your biggest problem getting a decent translation is that you have misread 2 r's as k's and another r as a y.

    tropesarse - end of first line with a dash to connect the parts of the word.

    last line - Agradeca al fabor (favor?)

    end of the fourth line - aparision - an apparition in English
     
    gimbler-dave likes this.
  3. gimbler-dave

    gimbler-dave Well-Known Member

    Thanks for catching those Bakersgma -- that's improved the translation quite a bit. I'm now entering:

    "En al ano de 1922 le acontesio a Octaviano Padilla el tropezarse con una alma en pena de una mujer. Asustado invoco de imediato al sto nino de atocha quien lo salvo de tan tremendo susto y alejo a tan fea aparision. Agradece el fabor en Chilapa Guerrero, Octaviano Padilla Mr"

    and getting back:

    "In the year 1922 I acontesio Octavian Padilla tripped a lost soul of a woman. Obtain immediate scared invoke sto nino de atocha who saved him as a tremendous shock and ugly aparision away. Appreciates the fabor in Chilapa Guerrero, Mr Padilla Octavian"
     
  4. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Sto Nino de Atocha stands for Santo Nino de Atocha, The Holy Child of Atocha.

    "(He) invoked the intermediation of Santo Nino de Atocha..."

    See the illustrations here and note how they match the little figure upper right in your retablo.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santo_Niño_de_Atocha
     
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  5. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    It sort of reads like the announcements I have seen in newspapers where Catholic people invoke the assistance of the saints (either specifically or in general) "by publication." In your case, Sr. Padilla is proclaiming testimony about the assistance he received.
     
  6. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

  7. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Let me go back to your title - he isn't "caught between a ghost and a witch." The "lost soul" is the "ugly apparition" and he didn't trip her. He's the one who tripped - el tropezarse (literally "he tripped himself"), not her. I don't see any words with the meaning of "witch."
     
  8. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    As a side note, it really surprises me how much HS Spanish one can retain after 50 years! :hilarious:
     
  9. gimbler-dave

    gimbler-dave Well-Known Member

    I took some in school as well, but unfortunately haven't retained very much. I was in the big city NORTH of Windsor, Ontario, so the opportunities to practice were limited! :)
     
  10. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Admittedly I took 3 (or was it 4) years and then lived in Puerto Rico for a year in my early 20's. The vocabulary changes a bit from place to place (just like American English vs English English) so that may be part of what's messing up your automated translation.
     
  11. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member

    My Spanish is as rusty as all of yours but this is what I get after reading the above and some google help. ....

    In 1922, (Something) to Octaviano Padilla stumbled on to a lost soul of a woman. Frightened, he immediately invoked the Santo Nino de Atocha who saved him from the tremendous shock and scared the ugly apparition away. In appreciation of the favor in Chilapa Guerrero, Mr. Octaviano Padilla

    So much of Spanish is idiomatic and you can't take it too literally. You almost have to read between the lines or, better yet, think in Spanish to make more sense of it.

    I don't get the word just before his name in the first line. I have tried several different spellings and come up blank. I also think it odd that Mr was used at the very end so maybe it means something besides Mister. Typically, one would use Sr. for Señor.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015
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  12. gimbler-dave

    gimbler-dave Well-Known Member

    Thank you for the help Bakersgma. I am posting a lot of 4 retablos tonight on eBay. I've summarized this one as "It gives thanks to Santo Niño de Atocha (Holy Child of Atocha) for saving Sr. Padilla of Chilapa de Álvarez from an ugly apparition" which reasonably covers the gist of the content.
     
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  13. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    Great job, Brad! Idioms are a problem in every language.

    I wonder whether the M is the beginning of Padilla's maternal name.
     
  14. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    That's a very good summary, Dave.
     
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  15. gimbler-dave

    gimbler-dave Well-Known Member

    "In 1922, (Something) to Octaviano Padilla stumbled on to a lost soul of a woman. Frightened, he immediately invoked the Santo Nino de Atocha who saved him from the shock and scared the ugly apparition away. In appreciation of the favor in Chilapa Guerrero, Mr. Octaviano Padilla"

    That is a nice smooth reading of it - thank you.
     
  16. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    I think possibly "acontesio" is misspelled and is supposed to be aconteció -- that is a verb form meaning "it came to pass" according to Google translate. I don't know what the "le" is all about. And the "a" after the word often means "to" but can have other prepositional meanings like at, of, into, or by. Maybe this is also idiomatic and can't be directly translated?

    I love that all of us with rusty Spanish skills have the opportunity to work on something like this.
     
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  17. Bakersgma

    Bakersgma Well-Known Member

    "Lo" stands for "it" in this kind of situation, Fig. I knew that the next word was the past tense of a verb, but should have persued alternate spellings. ;)
     
    Figtree3 likes this.
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