Question for hallmarks experts

I'm reaearching vintage van cleef and arpels compact or dance purse and need an expert opinion on hallmarks.
I'm not 100% sure if they legit.

Thanks for your help.

 

Looks right

 

I thought van cleef and arpels only marked gold as 750 and not as 18k. Also what does the LAO hallmark represent?

 

Is there a serial number? Most pages about authenticating VCA mention it should have a serial number somewhere.

 

No serial number. However this lools like 1930,s item and I'm not sure that serial numbers were in use at this period for this company.

 

You could always ask them. I think they do authentications for a fee, or did. It's got 1930s Italian gold marks other than the 18k if that's any help.

 

So LOM is Italian gold hallmark?

 

It's a maker's mark. The Italian mark is the diamond-shaped one in the center. It's the kind they used in the 30s.
http://www.925-1000.com/Fitalian_marks_01.html

 

SO, am I seeing what I THINK I'm seeing in the middle of that mark????? OR am I going BLIND?????? There's a CG down in the....ahem..."testimonials" .....if that means anything..........

 

Could you point me to the page where you got this hallmark picture from. The link you provided brings me to a silver forum and I couldn't find this hallmark anywhere.


So far I have 3 possibilities.

1 This is in fact Van Cleef item correctly hallmarked.

2 This is fake Van Cleef item (no serial number and 18k instead of 750 mark).

3 This is not Van Cleef item (Italian hallmark that looks like Van Cleef).

This is all very confusing

Thanks

 

rather a French maker's mark
http://www.925-1000.com/Ffrench_makers_B.html

 

Sorry couldn't find anything looking like this hallmark.

 

The rather suggestive looking mark is a French maker's mark, as Fid said. French maker's marks are always in a lozenge shape, either vertical, or horizontal like this one.
It looks like the mark for Van Cleef & Arpels, with the VC and A on either side of the victory column of the Place Vendôme, the square in Paris where VCA and other top end jewellers have their shops.

So @Aquitaine, it should be this thing below, the Vendôme Column, although I agree the mark on the compact looks like something else.


The LAO mark is for the London Assay Office. 18k is neither French nor British, but American. It is also used in some Asian countries.
As far as I know, VCA use either the French eagle mark for 18k gold, or the British 750 mark. This piece has a mishmash of marks.
If it were British marked, it should look something like this, along with the VCA mark:

• 

 

Found a bit more info. This item was listed at Christie's in 2017 but was withdrawn before the auction with whole bunch of other similar items (wonder why???).
The worst thing is I need to get correct price point by tomorrow night in order to make correct offer and so far I can't.
This compact is displayed at Christie's website in one of their guides to collect.

https://www.christies.com/features/20th-century-Objects-of-Vertu-collecting-guide-8537-1.aspx

And here is my picture

 

Lennyt, it is a very beautiful piece, but I have my doubts as to authenticity as true Van Cleef & Arpels. As you know VCA items have been faked for a long time, for obvious reasons.
I am not very happy with the sloppiness of the LAO mark, and the VCA mark doesn't look as well-defined as others I've seen.
Since the compact looks well made, I think it could be an existing quality piece, marked at a later date with fake VCA and LAO marks. The fact that it was withdrawn from Christie's is sus.

 

You right that is what I was thinking. What makes me confused is why would Christie's keep faked item as a example on their website. Even if it is in fact non authentic Van Cleef it is still a beutiful example of enamel work. The asking was 1.5k so I'm still not sure if it is in a right price range.

 

It is very beautiful, and the guilloche and other enamel is a gorgeous design in perfect condition. If it has been tampered with, 1.5k is too much.
A real pity, but I would say there are too many alarm bells.

 

I know. Makes me sad... Well Brimfield coming up in September, hopefully more things will come my way

 

Lennyt, I am just one person, maybe you can do some more research, or others have a different opinion. @kyratango, what do you think?
If it is still sus, the world is full of beautiful items....

About Christie's collector's guide, I think the guide and the auctioneers lead separate lives. The auctioneers probably forgot to alert the makers of the guide, and the compact will stay there for eternity.
Strange thing is, that although the photo is still there, there is no description of the piece. More alarm bells.

 

If you hover mouse over the photo description will pop up.