Question about homosexuality and photos from the late 1800 Early 1900

I was in a debate tonight about a photo I bought if these two men were gay or just friends. The two men are sitting each other lap with each others hands on their upper thighs.

I was told that was just the way good friend took pictures back in the day and there was no way a picture of gay men would have been taken. But I had someone else tell me they have a picture of two ladies embrace in a passionate kiss from around the 20s.

What are yalls opinions on the subject?

 

I'd have to see the photo, & study other gay male photos from that time period to make an educated guess.

What leads you to believe they are gay ?

 

If we could see the photo we could give better advice. Now we don't even know the timeframe of the picture and that makes a lot of difference.

 

Such questions are very tricky because no facts are usually involved. Just the speculations of the viewers. Unless you have identified the individuals in a photo and know for sure thay they were in a gay relationship, I don't know how it would be possible to do more than speculate. Maybe somebody here knows about the societal norms of the period, but as springfield mentioned we do not even know the period. I would imagine that 1880s and 1920s could be vastly different.

 

Whenever I watch something about the middle east , Im always struck by how much the men are affectionate with each other . Holding hands , hugging , etc. I think that until the 50s , it wasn't uncommon at all to see men in pics being affectionate with each other without the specter of homosexuality rearing its head . Look at service men pics from ww2 , lots of what would be considered suspect behavior through modern eyes . Even nude frolicking . Like taste , ones perception is subjective . Some folks might see 2 very close friends horsing around , others might see the love that dare not speak its name . I think its kinda sad that men ,who crave touch as much as a woman , are unable to express their affectation with some other male without being judged .

 

Some photos of gay people were taken but people's manner of expressing affection was different than today. I doubt any overt sexual gestures were being expressed in a formal portrait. Holding hands would be more typical and gay or straight might do so. You might see something different in a snapshot. Context is everything. That said, there are people who will read in to it what they want. Photos such as the one being discussed are sought after.

 

And, in a way, the picture/s will only put our 'visual' judgement on it.....no matter how unbiased we like to say we are!!!!!

 

Even today in many places in Europe men walk with their arms around each other out of friendship. I doubt there's any way to tell from a photo unless it's really risqué.

 

I bought it at auction last night so looking over it today he's not actually in his lap, but on the chair am with his leg slung over the others.

I guess different eyes could see different things.
It's a "real photo postcard" if that helps date it.

 

looks like brothers..

 

I thought that maybe, but all the pictures I've seen of siblings is much more formal. Like standing side by side or ones sitting while the other is standing.

Would yall say this is the 30s?

 

1930's? I doubt it with that curly wicker chair.

 

google: Victorian wicker photographer's chair

 

They *do* resemble, Komo... ears, chins, eyes, noses, mouths...

 

Funny thing... despite Mexican men's reputation for machismo, intolerance of LGBT, etc... their level of 'homophobia' in their behavior is low. They sing together, get drunk together, cry on one another's shoulders (literally), hug, and have little anxiety about public displays of intense man-to-man affection, commiseration, and camaraderie. I have seen many photos, old and new, of such situations. Cultures are so interesting.

 

What is komo?

 

me....

 

Oohh, lol
I thought they were saying it was some sort of race

 

Their clothing is a bit odd and makes me wonder if they were members of a fringe group in society. I suppose it could also just be that they are motorcycle riders and dressed as such. Otherwise, I don't see much to say that they were gay.

I took the opportunity to research this a bit and found that there are several sites purporting to show "gay" photos. I found most of the photos to be rather innocuous or at least inconclusive as to what was being portrayed. Much of it seemed to be wishful thinking of those putting the photos on-line. I did find one site that took a look at photos from the perspective of intimacy among men, homosexuality, and how expression of both has changed through history.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/07/29/bosom-buddies-a-photo-history-of-male-affection/

There were a few photos that made me go Hmmmmm.

This one seems to have something on a cord placed between their lips and a wedding ring can be seen on one man's hand.


This gaze seems unmistakable but who knows?


Likewise, this pose just seems a bit too relaxed but maybe they are brothers.



There were some that were more overt and some that were risque or pornographic. These tended to be snapshots as I suggested above.

Hard to mistake this.


Clear or not?


The fact is that of the hundreds of photos purported to show gay couples, most fall short in any kind of substance linking them as such.

 

Some of the more poised photos above males me think maybe they were promotional, like for a play maybe?
Or did they do that back then?

I just find it odd there is something between their lips.

I think it's ridiculous to say no portrait photos were taken of gays, especially if they were close with the studio owner or the owner himself.

But I think it's also safe to say that gay people aren't going to take overly embracing photos just because they are gay either, because after all, they are just as normal/reserved as most of us.

But to say it never happened....