Featured Queen Ann 1713 cup?

Discussion in 'Silver' started by stracci, Apr 20, 2023.

  1. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    I saw this little cup in the pawn shop.
    I'm assuming silver. I didn't look at it long enough to see any assay marks.

    The coin set in the bottom is Queen Anne, and the date says 1713. The pawn shop people didn't know anything about it. They didn't see the date either. It's a little hard to see.
    There's also a monogram on one side.

    I didn't see the date 'till I looked at these photos after I was at home.

    What could this cup be? It has a short hollow stem which probably connected to a wooden handle. Sorry, I didn't get a profile photo.
    Before I go back to buy it, does any one know what this cup/dipper could be?
    It's priced at $69, but I might get them to take less.
    Screenshot_20230420-164523~2.png
    Screenshot_20230420-164549~2.png
    Screenshot_20230420-164532~2.png Screenshot_20230420-164452~2.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2023
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  2. daveydempsey

    daveydempsey Moderator Moderator

    Can't help with the cup but the coin is a Sterling silver 4 Pence also known as a Groat.
    They were also used as Maundy Money.
    In that condition if it hadn't been soldered into the cup would be worth around $100
     
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  3. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    Oh, thanks for the info! This is good to know!
    It's very unusual to find such a thing in my neck of the woods.
    I'm thinking of going back in the morning to buy it.
     
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  4. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    After looking around online, I think it's a toddy ladle, missing the long baleen handle.
    The grape leaves and clusters should've been obvious........
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2023
  5. Shangas

    Shangas Underage Antiques Collector and Historian

    Famous last words.

    My dad's missed out on literally countless bargains because he decided to "think about it, and come back".

    The item, whatever it was, invariably got sold the moment he turned his back.
     
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  6. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    Yes, this has happened to me before, and it's devastating.
    I just saw this item today.I usually don't walk away from good stuff, but I wasn't sure what this thing was until afterward.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it will still be there when the place opens tomorrow, along with a sterling cicada brooch that I'm lusting for!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2023
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  7. Boland

    Boland Well-Known Member

    Probably to all of us. I put something down the other day and walked 2 rows down ‘to think about it’ and come back a few minutes later and it was gone. Was a little upset with myself.
     
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  8. Chinoiserie

    Chinoiserie Well-Known Member

    I've spent many a day dashing back to shops to buy things that I didn't realise the value of at first visit. On one occasion it was a painting that I thought might be worth £10k - £20k. I went into work the following day and told my boss that I had emergency dental treatment in the afternoon so needed the time off. I got to the shop only to discover that it was the most awful print you'd ever seen. Probably printed out on some ones ink jet printer at home on normal document paper.
     
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  9. kyratango

    kyratango Bug jewellery addiction!

    Cicada! Sterling! I wish you’ll get it and SHOW!;):)
     
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  10. KSW

    KSW Well-Known Member

    What a cool thing!
     
  11. Chinoiserie

    Chinoiserie Well-Known Member

    I have adopted the strategy of walking around the shop with things while I think about them. If I change my mind I just put them down again and walk.
     
  12. ola402

    ola402 Well-Known Member

    Ive seen this shape hung around the neck of a wine sommelier. It's what they use to taste wine in restaurants before declaring it a good choice. It's called a tastevine. We used to have a restaurant here in town where they had a sommelier to impress the patrons. it was fun watching him work. I can't see the upper part of the cup so can't see what would have been connected to it. The Sommelier usually wears one of these on a large neck chain, like a fancy medallion necklace.

    Definition:
    This shallow silver metal cup is faceted and convex. And, its original design was intended to be used in the low lighting of a wine cellar. The shiny metal, the facets, its convex shape and its shallowness were designed such that in low light, a small quantity of wine could be poured into it and provide the wine maker with a better view of the color and clarity of the wine.

    Today, a tastevin is more of a Sommelier's (“suh-mel-yay”) badge of tradition. A bit of Sommelier bling. But, a Sommelier may still open a bottle of wine either at your table or at a Sommelier station, and pour just a splash of wine in their tastevin to sip it to ensure the wine is not flawed.
     
  13. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Sterling cicada brooch!:woot::woot: Now you're talking!:happy:
     
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  14. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    This item is not a tastevin. It doesn't have the bumps and dimples needed to reflect the colour and general look of wine correctly, so it can't be used to assess wine.
     
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  15. bluumz

    bluumz Quite Busy

    THIS article shows one quite similar:
    "Tastevin design varies with the type of wine to be evaluated. A tastevin with small linear grooves (gordons) is designed for evaluating white wines. A tastevin with round indentations (cupules) is for red wines. Sometimes the two forms were combined in a single tastevin.
    Older tastevins (like mine) often feature a coin embedded in the bottom of the cup — the coin in my tastevin is a 5 Franc coin from 1868, featuring Emperor Napoleon III.
    It seems to be decoration and/or repair. The coin is absolutely not to be used as a way to date a tastevin."

    Screenshot (181).png
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2023
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  16. DragonflyWink

    DragonflyWink Well-Known Member

  17. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    That one does have a ring of dimples, and I would be able to assess wine in that, with some effort though. Ideally you need one like in the first photo in the article, which is the one I got when I graduated from my wine course.

    Stracci's one may have been meant as a fancy tastevin, but it couldn't be used to assess wine properly. And it certainly wouldn't have been allowed in the wine course I took.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2023
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  18. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Makes much more sense. Thank you.

    I really couldn't have been able to see and assess the character of wine in it, which is the main purpose of a tastevin.
     
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  19. DragonflyWink

    DragonflyWink Well-Known Member

    This is my much simpler early 19th century Scottish Provincial toddy ladle, but the OP's piece shown likely had a similar twisted baleen handle:

    toddyladlebaleen-1.jpg


    ~Cheryl
     
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  20. stracci

    stracci Well-Known Member

    @bluumz @ola402 @Any Jewelry
    I actually have a tastevin with Minerva marks. It has the dimples. See below.
    Screenshot_20230421-080650~2.png

    However, I believe @DragonflyWink is correct, it's a toddy ladle, missing the handle. Maybe it was baleen? Too bad it's gone.
    Here's a similar one (below) that I found on eBay. It has a similar star design around the coin. Different coin though.

    Screenshot_20230421-080823~2.png
     

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