Featured Prayer Wheel

Hi All,
Wasn't sure where else to post this
Prayer Wheel, Tibetan I think. Prayer inside, probably a tourist piece? Missing a stone on the top. the scroll is glued/sealed so I can't open it, terribly dirty and stained
any information appreciated
thanks for looking

 

Maybe the currently PC & more inclusive term 'ethnographic art' would make this forum seem more appropriate to items like this. Just a thought.

 

it's lovely....and looks like it has honest age....and where it's listed is just fine !

 

Nice prayer wheel, cx.

Wholeheartedly agree. The percentage of tribal art is so very small, although it has been said on this very forum that the entire population of Indonesia, all 260 million of them, are tribal. The argument being that indigenous equals tribal. My country has about 15 million indigenous Dutch people out of a population of 16 million, all tribal?

So where do you post a Himalayan prayer wheel? This is not a tribal item, since there are no tribe-specific designs or symbols.
It is probably from Nepal, but could be from a neighbouring Himalayan country or region. Older, but it doesn't look very old to me. These are often artificially aged and Himalayan printing usually has that faded look.
They are made both for tourists/export and for local use.

 

Thank-you komkwa and AJ I've never seen one before, interesting reading about them!

 

I don't see any difference between clannish & tribal, so let's put the Scots-Irish here too.

I don't love the word 'ethnographic', just seems to mean made by someone who is not a white European, unless it is undeniably fine art, but closer to what gets posted to this forum than 'tribal'.

 

let's get tribal......

 

Agree, not a perfect word, but more inclusive than tribal.

The original meaning of tribe comes from Tribus, a term used for the organization of the three Patrician groups in ancient Rome. If you belonged to one those groups you had legal status.
In European colonial times tribe was adopted and adapted to mean the following, from Wikipedia:

“A tribe is viewed, developmentally or historically, as a social group existing outside of or before the development of states. A tribe is a group of distinct people, dependent on their land for their livelihood, who are largely self-sufficient, and not integrated into the national society.”

The Dutch word for tribe is ‘stam’, the same as for tree trunk. It relates to one’s origin or heritage, the same idea as a family tree. Most Germanic languages have a similar word.
We refer to tribal art or objects as ethnographic, a term which is also used for European regional or folk art and objects.

Tribe is a European colonial term which is still used in strongly Western (British) influenced cultures. Other cultures have other concepts of social organizational structures.
Just to give an example of Indonesia (of course), a country which for thousands of years has had very diverse and complex social organizational structures:
Most pre-colonial Indonesians lived in one of the Princely or Royal States, a small number lived in tribes and sectarian groups. The sectarian groups are traditionalist/religious groups which chose a secluded life away from the organization of the Princely States, but often lived inside the boundaries of those states. Anthropologists, in their wisdom, tend to refer to these sects as tribes(!).
There was no classification of the different social organizational structures, the perception was simply that other groups or nations had other customs. Just like your neighbours will do things differently from you. The different social organizational structures were never seen as developmental stages.
There is still no word for tribe in modern Indonesian. I hope it stays that way.

All for it.
There is a slight difference though. A clan is an extended family group or a group with a common ancestor. That can be a mythical ancestor. A clan usually lives within another social organizational structure.
To complicate matters, many tribes also believe they are descended from a common ancestor.
And then there are people who adhere to the Bible in the strictest sense. Adam and Eve are also perceived common ancestors.

 

That takes me back, I always loved that song.

 

Alexander the Great and the Romans both had Herakles/Hercules worked into their origin stories. Just trying to see how far away I can get from Buddhist prayer wheels.

 

My Indonesian ancestors included just about everyone of historical importance in their ancestry. Some are verifiable, some are not, but myth and 'fact' are of equal importance in traditional Javanese/Madurese culture.
Alexander the Great (Iskander) was included, of course, as he probably is in most northern Indian royal bloodlines. Indonesian nobility is related to Indian nobility. So Herakles would be in there as well. His blood must be pretty diluted by now, I certainly don't feel that strong.

 

Considering that Alexander didn't get very far into India & almost literally killed himself trying, his propaganda machine was even better than I realized. He was sort of I came, I saw, I set up a town named after me, I moved on. It fascinates me that coins with Alexander styled as Herakles, and the cameos following the coins, are routinely described as Herakles with the features of Alexander, while coins of other rulers with the attributes of a deity are described that way round, as are coins/cameos of Alexander with the horns of Ammon. Alexander with the horns of Ammon, but Herakles with the features of Alexander.

 

I noticed that too when I was researching Alexander imagery. The Nemean lion skin, a symbol of Herakles, could have been interpreted as the lion as symbol of royalty.
Herakles is said to have visited the temple of Ammon in Siwa, as did Alexander. At the temple Alexander was supposedly told that Ammon was his real father, and that he would conquer the world.
The horns are probably genetic.