Featured Pilgrim Sugar Chest

Discussion in 'Furniture' started by James Conrad, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Alrighty then! An interesting piece of early American furniture is up for grabs later today. The sale title describes this as a "sugar chest" and they could be correct but, I am not so sure, matter of fact i doubt it is a sugar chest.
    First off, sugar chests are a southern form of furniture from the 19th century and this chest is clearly much earlier than that, I'd guess 1680-1700.
    And 2, sugar chests ALWAYS had a lock, sugar was an extremely valuable commodity in 19th century southern america and a lock was mandatory!
    Construction is white pine & maple, indicating a northern piece, it was painted originally as there are still a few "squiggle" lines visible on side of chest.
    The front stiles are decorated with a "linenfold" carving/moulding and the chest seems to be all there, a remarkable survivor considering it's age.
    My best guess on chest form? a "chamber table", used to store ones "necessaries", a very rare form of american furniture that survive from this era as only a half dozen or so are known.
    As of this post i am the high bidder but, as there are 30 some bidders watching from liveauctioneers alone, i expect some VERY lively bidding action in a couple hours! :hilarious:
    https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/80507008_william-and-mary-maple-and-pine-sugar-chest


    sugar.jpg
    Notice the painted Squiggle lines on left stile that still survive
    sugar 2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  2. Christmasjoy

    Christmasjoy Well-Known Member

    VERY nice indeed !!! ... Joy. :)
     
  3. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    It is a beauty, James. I hope the other bidders are having an off day, slept late, whatever.
    :cool:
     
  4. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Nice thought but SO NOT HAPPENING! Old furniture people are similar to Golfers in some respects, it is not unusual to find golfers asleep in their car at a golf course parking lot after having driven most of the night to make their Tee Time!
    This piece WILL NOT slip thru the cracks, trust me! :cigar:
    There's that WORD again! LINENFOLD! :hilarious:
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  5. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    This piece at the MET which they term "Chest on Frame", that is technically correct however, what the heck did they use this for?
    No one knows for sure, it's one of the mysteries of old furniture yet to be solved. One thing i am pretty damn sure of though, it ain't no sugar chest!

    Here is what the MET says about their chest

    Chest-on-frame1670–1700
    American

    What purpose this small lift-top chest with a drawer on high legs was intended to serve is not entirely clear. It may have been what is designated in period inventories as a “chamber table,” used in a bedroom as a washstand or possibly to store chamber pots.

    met chamber r.jpg
     
  6. judy

    judy Well-Known Member

    Wishing you all the very best to remain high bidder!
     
  7. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    So you are bidding on something to house chamber pots?:wideyed:
     
  8. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member


    Well YES! I guess i am :hilarious:
     
  9. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    I do have some old chamber pots :D but I have them out where they can be seen:eek:!

    Good luck with it! Made be go look as some furniture I've saved to watch on Liveauctioneers....
     
  10. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Hey! It COULD be a washstand! :p
    All we know for sure is, in 17th century probate wills, there was a piece of furniture called a "chamber table" that got willed to somebody! :cigar:
     
    judy, Christmasjoy, kyratango and 4 others like this.
  11. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    If you have ever looked at any 17th century and earlier documents in your native language, it's clear these people spoke and wrote MUCH DIFFERENTLY than we do today.
    These documents require translation, even if written in your native language. You might pick out a few words here an there but DANG! there is very much a " what the hell is this guy saying!!!???" quality to the writing.
     
    judy, Christmasjoy, kyratango and 6 others like this.
  12. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    :facepalm:
     
    judy, Christmasjoy, kyratango and 3 others like this.
  13. Ghopper1924

    Ghopper1924 Well-Known Member

    Ain't it the truth. I recently read a 17th century probate document from Essex County, MASS and one of the items was "A Great Dowruff." No idea what that was, best guess is some kind of pewter vessel. Definitely an evocative name!
     
    judy, Christmasjoy, kyratango and 6 others like this.
  14. say_it_slowly

    say_it_slowly The worst prison is a closed heart

    Boy that's the truth! I was tasked with reviewing 17th & 18th C probate records from York Co VA at one point looking for mention of specific items. Makes you appreciate uniformity!
     
    judy, Christmasjoy, kyratango and 5 others like this.
  15. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    LOL, KNOWED it was comin! :hilarious::hilarious::hilarious:

    LiveAuctioneers

    You've Been Outbid!
    You had the leading bid until you were outbid by bidder #3*****3

    Think i'll just wait on the auction & try my luck with the bid button.
     
    judy, Christmasjoy, kyratango and 5 others like this.
  16. Any Jewelry

    Any Jewelry Well-Known Member

    Ok, who is bidder #3*****3, where does he live.:punch:
    With that finger on the trigger feeling.:nailbiting: Good luck!:)
     
    judy, Christmasjoy, kyratango and 3 others like this.
  17. James Conrad

    James Conrad Well-Known Member

    Meanwhile, several years ago I got involved with a FAKE chamber table.
    A high end early furniture dealer in new england called me up one Saturday morning SKY HIGH about this chamber table. They were driving home with their prize, giving me all the details as well as asking, "what do you think"?
    Well, it's very nice i said ( didn't want to kill the buzz so soon) after viewing photos on auction site but there was something i didn't quite like about the piece.
    I investigated the piece and by Sunday evening was convinced the piece wasn't real, the dealer was calling ALL DAY LONG Sunday wanting to know how research was going, i was polite but cautioned that i was finding things that were NOT GOOD!
    By Sunday evening I laid it on them, it ain't real, i believe it's fake. BAM! I would know for sure Monday morning when a museum opened that had info i needed to confirm.
    Dealer became VERY ANGRY! said i was "just jealous!" of the find and killing the "high" they were on with their prize..... Oh Boy! this is going well i thought!:hilarious: no good deed ya know? I was researching at their request and, for free!
    Monday came, I called Museum, not only did they confirm but, they had examined piece personally and had an ENTIRE FILE on it! Would you like us to email you the file?
    Contained in the file was an article published in a national antique publication, the piece had been at Christie's 20 years before and sold for 220K. A forensic exam ( take it apart, piece by piece) was done by a well known authority on early furniture and it was declared FAKE.
    Christie's returned the 1/4 million, gave the piece back to owner and, that was THAT!
    Until it showed up at a small country auction house in Massachusetts and, i got a call one Sat morning , "Hey James!!! Guess what I FOUND!!!"

    Fake Chamber Table


    30170520_1_x.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  18. Figtree3

    Figtree3 What would you do if you weren't afraid?

    Good luck, @James Conrad ! I see it ends at the top of the hour. I'm keeping the page open and will refresh as needed.
     
    judy, Christmasjoy, kyratango and 3 others like this.
  19. Ghopper1924

    Ghopper1924 Well-Known Member

    "Dealer became VERY ANGRY! said i was "just jealous!" of the find and killing the "high" they were on with their prize."

    Doesn't this guy post regularly on this site? This reaction seems to come up several times per year.
     
    judy, Christmasjoy, kyratango and 2 others like this.
  20. Ghopper1924

    Ghopper1924 Well-Known Member

    So James, can you briefly tell us how you knew it was a fake?
     
    judy, Christmasjoy, kyratango and 2 others like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted
Similar Threads: Pilgrim Sugar
Forum Title Date
Furniture A Pilgrim Fragment Aug 14, 2018
Furniture Tennessee Sugar Chest Worth? Aug 24, 2021
Furniture Newbie stepback cupboard and sugar chest??? Jan 10, 2021
Furniture Kentucky Sugar Box Feb 2, 2020
Furniture Kentucky Primitive Sugar Desk? Secretary Desk? Jul 1, 2019

Share This Page