Ordnance Button

I found another button having a hard time identifying. Could the forum help me with this one. I can read only on the back marks : John ST NY William.
Can anyone tell me more about this button?

 

W. R. Williams 12 John St, New York?

 

What is the printing on the front of the button? Does it say Ordinance Corps USA or just Ordinance Corps? This button of cross cannons was instituted as the Ordinance Corps button in 1851. At that time only Ordinance Corps was on it. In 1951 USA was added.

"In 1851 came wide uniform changes. The shell and flame was removed from the uniform of all other elements of the Army and thus became the distinctive insignia of the Ordnance Corps. A new ordnance button was also authorized about the same time - of gilt, convex in shape and with a plain border, having the crossed cannon and bombshell and a circular scroll, over and across the cannon, containing the words 'Ordnance Corps.' "
3rd paragraph up from the bottom:
http://www.patriotfiles.com/index.php?name=Sections&req=viewarticle&artid=8682&page=1

"In 1950, the wording was changed to read 'Ordnance Corps U.S.A.'. With the reestablishment of the Ordnance Corps on 28 October 1985, it was an obvious insignia to choose as the regimental crest."
http://www.goordnance.army.mil/history/crest.html

If the maker is Wm. R. Williams and not a reproduction, then probably dates 1841-1846 per the following query on a Militaria forum:
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/231809-ordnance-button/

These dates don't jive with the 1851 date above when uniform changes were made. I suspect the dates were more like circa??

--- Susan

 

Thanks Susan.
Great information and a great website (patriot files)for futur reseach. The button is definitely authentic and no USA.
There is def. Not much on Williams buttons online.
BTW that is my post on the mikitary forum too. I posted it here by mistake at first so thought it better there. However, your post is full of great info.

 

These are one of the best button sites I know of,great for future research.

http://keephomesteadmuseum.org/archive.htm

http://www.vintagebuttons.net/

http://www.thebuttonlibrary.com/

 

Uniform buttons but I haven't looked throught the site yet.

http://www.angelfire.com/wa/dianaspage/MiscUniformPage.htm

 

Great Thanks .spirit of shilah. I will be needing them.

 

Your welcome wek..I love buttons

 

I got a response from the The relicman . He was kind enough to respond with a very detailed explanation of the William Williams buttons and the history of this manufacturer. I will post the site also for those interestied.
But to give you a brief history from what he shared with me:
Apparently Williams operated out of 12 John St.( Which is what is on the button)from 1841-1843. Then he must have recieved a contract for Uniforms. Mr. Ridgeway explained that the Ordinance Dept. Button design was not approved until 1851. He must have subcontracted the button from Scovill Mfg. He continued to explain that Williams must have wanted his name on the Ordinance button which would be costly This may have proved to be too expensive because Williams did not get any contracts beyond this initial one. A great story and glad he took the time to share it with me.
I thought the forum would appreciate the history also.

 

I would love for you to share the link to the site wek, can't have too many button info. sites.

 

If any one is intersted in purchaing this button I listed it on ebay. Thanks for all the responses and the education on this and other buttons.
L.