Old photo,a little help ?

Hi all. Picked this up today,mainly because its been sitting here forever and I kinda felt bad for it! Plus it was practically free. Ive tried to find some of the men,but my search skills apparently arent very good. Im hoping someone recognizes the crest,or the club (with their mascot bulldog Eli!) .Only a couple are in uniform,and its dated 1943,wich kinda throws me as youd have thought more would have been. Any input appreciated.

 

Well I tried to find H N Nelson in Ann Arbor, thinking that was the name of the fellow where that appears. But what I found out was that H N Nelson was the official printer of the Michiganensian - the U of M yearbook. So that should narrow the search a bit.

Can we see the entire page?

 

Oh, and I'm guessing we're talking a fraternity, not an academic society too.

 

Johnny, I haven't done any research, but on seeing "bulldog Eli" in your message, screams Yale University to me. Yale's mascot is a bulldog and a Yale student and alumnus is called an Eli. Eilu Yale was a benefactor of the CT school way back in the early 1700s or late 1600s. The School later was renamed Yale in honor of him.

--- Susan

 

Try looking at Beta Theta Pi's Crest on this page. Aside from not having the book and lamp of knowledge that's on yours (upper left quadrant) it's the same - including the "griffon" on top.

https://www.google.com/search?q=uni...hUJwVQKHZ5FDDg4ChCwBAhP#imgrc=W3rE90NwJ1T6qM:

 

I was wondering that too, Susan, thinking that H. N. Nelson of Ann Arbor, Michigan was a student there, but that didn't pan out.

 

Great info! Thank you both so much! You'd think with 2 vets names I could find something,but alas ,nothing.

 

I didn't see Baker's reply before posting above. That griffn & shield is the coat of arms of the Beta Theta Phi fraternity.
http://www.thecollegeshack.com/Beta-Theta-Pi-Fraternity-Hats-Ties-Belts-Decals-s/277.htm

I found the 1943 Michigan yearbook with all the pages. It doesn't have this particular picture but does have a group pic of the Beta Theta Phi fraternity with what appears to be a bulldog. There is a problem. The pic is small and can't be enlarged unless you subscribe to something.

Bottom left pic, p. 174
http://www.e-yearbook.com/sp/eybb?school=13&year=1943&rpp=18&startpage=162&up=18&flavor=mich

About 4 fraternities have dogs pictured, Acacia page 170, Beta Theta Phi p. 174, Lambda Chi Alpha p. 181, Phi Delta Theta p. 172, Pi Lambda Phi p. 188. The dog in the BTP looks like a bulldog.

--- Susan

 

Good find, Susan. I tried to find the 1943 book on Ancestry and had trouble narrowing it down to that specific year. The 1940 book was easier to search, but the Beta Theta Pi page did not show this crest, but instead showed an illustration of the frat "pin" (as did all the other groups.) There was no picture of a dog mascot.

Johnny - The kind of photo you have is what we called back in the 60's a "composite" - small, individual headshots of the members, with names underneath and some illustration of the insignia of the organization. Mine also has the name of the sorority on it. I'm kind of surprised yours doesn't. Or does it and you were looking for school?

 

Bingo!! Found the text on that yearbook page of Beta Theta Phi. It is confusing on first reading. The top part of the text are the names of those actually in the yearbook pic. The last line of the names has "Eli (dog)." Note it has the names Buell, Hooper, and Burton the treasurer, president and Vice president in Johhny's picture. It doesn't list a N.L.Nelson.

"TA THETA PI TOP ROW Gault, Hayden, McCallum. del Valle, Buckey, Erb, Hedges, Plant, Laursen, Moon. Cavan, Summerfield, Teller, Eleinstiver, Morse. ROW 2 T Schick, Wendling, Selby, .Baker, Hooper, Herbst, Marble, Somers, Klingbeil. Relnhart. Hunter, Coulter, Saxton. Snow, Buell, Hardgrove. Osgood, Vyn, Culbertson. ROW 3 Saums, Doyle, Whipple, Alexander, O ' Neill, Caulson. West, Sundquist, McCalmont, Adams, Trowbridge, Burton, Pearce. ROW 4 McCoy, Lombard, Colvin. Teesdale. Ford, Hendershot. Eli (dog), Bennett. Tennis, Williams, G. Johnson, J. Johnson."

The following text has the names of the state officers, juniors, Sophmores & Freshmen who are not pictured. Only the Seniors are pictured in the yearbook picture.


http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/University_Michigan_Michiganensian_Yearbook/1943/Page_174.html

--- Susan

 

Susan - It's not N L it's H N Nelson, the official printer for the Michiganensian - The Univ of Michigan yearbook - and I assume the printer of this composite.

 

By jove I think you got it! Fantastic work,thank you so much! I wonder how many of those handsome young men didnt survive the war? Its so cool to have a background,I may contact them and see if they might like to have it. It sat in the thrift for months,and I kept looking at it sitting there and feeling sorry for it !

 

Hmmm... printer...its been a long day. That part of your reply didn't sink in. Chalk it up to a senior moment. Why in the world would the printer have sign??? Oh, well won't waste anymore brain power on this. With senior moments occuring more often, I haven't any brain power to waste.

Probably more than we think for the pic was taken in 1943. The seniors would have been around age 22 graduating in June of '43. By the time it took to enlist, basic training, and be transported to a combat area, the Normandy landing in June 1944 may have been over. Of course there was still quite a bit of combat after the landing in Europe and especially in the Pacific. Juniors, and especially Sophomores and Freshmen may have missed combat entirely. Also today those Seniors would be c95 years of age meaning very few are still alive.

--- Susan

 

Here's a bit more on H.N. Nelson. He was a photographer of many of the Univ.'s stuff and such. Here are some Univ of Mich. dental class pics by him from 1944 on. Some has the same sig. as on this pic.
http://sindecuse.pastperfectonline.com/bycreator?keyword=Nelson,+H.+N.

--- Susan

 

Y'all are amazing.
Thanks for adopting these gentlemen, Johnny.

 

We know at least 2 of them possibly saw action,I hope your right Susan,I really hope the majority didnt have to see war.

 

Is there anyway you can post a full picture of the entire photo? I would really appreciate it. I can also add a little more info to the discussion. The reason that the Beta Theta Pi crest is modified on this picture is that Beta, unlike other fraternities, encouraged chapters to use their own specific variances on the Beta Theta Pi national crest. It is detailed on page 7 of this book from 1910. https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=loc.ark:/13960/t7dr3s31h;view=1up;seq=3;size=200 The device in the upper left hand corner is the lamp of knowledge upon two books. The Greek motto translates to "a lamp unto my feet", a Biblical reference. Hope this helps!