Old or New(ish)? Signed Ivory Netsuke

Howdy all, I hope this listing finds you all happy and healthy! I had a question about an ivory netsuke I happened upon. It is definitely ivory with the engine turning, and it has a signature, my questions on it are, is it antique or perhaps newer than antique? As it has 2 Himotoshi of equal size, curved and not angled, I had read that antique netsuke have 2 unevenly sized himotoshi to tuck in the cord. There is a chip in the ivory where a piece of gold was poking out too, I wonder how much that would effect value?

also, does anyone recognize the signature? Any help in identifying age and signature would be phenomenal! Thank you so much! jem

 

Hi @Vesuvia, are you referring to 'shcreger lines' found in ivory pieces when you say 'engine turning'?? Not sure I've ever heard 'engine turning' referred to ivory before, but that COULD be just me!!! You might be waiting for others to come along now until tomorrow......although it's a worldwide site and 24 hours, it does slow down at night!! @komokwa, @Bronwen ??

 

Not all of them do, and on some the difference is hardly discernible. Can you pass a cord from one hole to another?
It doesn't look antique to me, but that is just me. There is no visible wear on the holes either.

Cross-hatching would be the usual word when referring to Schreger lines. While 'engine turning' gives an idea of what we see, it gives the impression of something artificial.

 

I have no idea what engine turning means.
AJ, Are those the Schreger lines that can be seen vertically on the back of the item in the last photograph? Looks like the character is sitting on top of one of his shoes?
Is that the case? Is a missing shoe something historically found in art items from Japan?

 

Schreger lines are cross-hatched lines on ivory. They are easily spotted on rounded parts, like on this photo:



A lot of netsuke have a humorous character, the missing sandal could be one of those things. Or it could relate to a specific tale.

 

"Engine turning" is a description you sometimes see in older books on ivory, before "Schreger lines" became the more common term. It refers to a decorative type of engraving applied to small items such as watch cases and compacts. Machines - "engines" - for creating the patterns were developed in the 18th century. They are not suggesting that the lines in ivory were engraved, but that the visual effect is similar.


https://www.abebooks.co.uk/Rose-Cutting-Frame-Producing-Engine-Patterns/6823251909/bd


http://jewellerylife.blogspot.com/2011/05/what-is-engine-turning.html

https://www.watchprosite.com/bregue...guet-dial--photos-and-video/1.990078.6946113/

 

No, Schreger lines crisscross in the crosshatched pattern described above & are visible only in ivory segments that have been cut in cross section from the outer portion of a tusk. You can see a hint of Schreger lines in the second photo in the edge below the signature. There is probably a name for the roughly parallel grain you are pointing out, I just don't know it. This is how ivory looks where it has been cut lengthwise.

My uneducated subjective impression is that the netsuke does not have enough age to be antique or enough wear ever to have been used.

The sandal underneath reminds me of the way cats will pretend to lose a toy, & then jump up as if surprised to find it under them.

 

Thanks @2manybooks for the additional clarification!!

 

when I went to the GIA in Carlsbad, California for my Graduate Gemologist degree, that’s what the instructors all called the schreger lines. Sorry, I should have specified that. Thank you for explaining it

 

Thank you for such a perfect example, AJ.

Thank you so much, 2many! Those are excellent examples, it finally makes sense to me how bones grow by looking at those patterns. From this one discussion, I better understand how nature grows in fractals, how ivory grows outwards. Engine turning may make some sense to me now!

I love your rendition of the lost shoe! Until someone comes along to tell me the children's story tale about it, I'm going with how cats will pretend! Thank you for making me smile! Thank you all for the education.

Thank you, @Vesuvia for showing your delightful piece!

 

I don't want to mislead you. The patterns seen in elephant ivory are unique to that material, which is why they are so helpful in identifying ivory. They are created by spiraling tubules that provide nutrients to the growing tusk, and are not structures that you would see in any type of bone.

 

@antidiem, watch the below link....if it doesn't bother your eyes.....he doesn't get in to actually doing most of the 'turning' until I think nearly 3/4 thru the video, but then on, it's pretty good at showing the "engine turning" result!!!

 

Ok thanks, please allow me to rephrase my original sentence - now I can understand more about how IVORY grows! I really meant that to start with! Thank you so much 2many!


Thank you, too, Aquitaine, I've never seen such a machine that does turning by lasers before, engine turning makes much more sense now!

 

the holes do allow for a cord to go through quite easily, yes. Let me see what I can do about getting a clearer shot of them for you.

 

That's ok, I believe you. I don't mean to be rude, but my computer is having problems, so loading photos of something that is already obvious is something I'd rather avoid.

 

No rudeness gleaned, my friend. :]

 

Also, the missing shoe under her bottom is something I can relate to, “where’s my phone?” look everywhere, still can’t find it...then the light comes on, and I look on my chair. Sitting on it, of course. :/

:}