Featured Native American childs moccasins

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by Sdcookie2, Jun 1, 2024.

  1. Sdcookie2

    Sdcookie2 Well-Known Member

    PXL_20240601_215617005_copy_2016x1134~2.jpg PXL_20240601_215637293.MP_copy_2016x1134~2.jpg PXL_20240601_215621456_copy_2016x1134.jpg Hiya all,

    Anyone have an idea of the tribal affiliation?

    Thanks Steve
     
  2. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    I don't recognize the beads.....the color of the beads , or the design...
    they look dark and thick enuf to be moose...
     
  3. Sdcookie2

    Sdcookie2 Well-Known Member

    They are only about 6" long, thin buckskin.
     
    johnnycb09 likes this.
  4. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    they don't look thin in the photos...imo ......... but I believe you..
     
    Aquitaine likes this.
  5. Sdcookie2

    Sdcookie2 Well-Known Member

    PXL_20240601_234628664~2_copy_823x830.jpg
     
    kyratango likes this.
  6. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    It is difficult to see the scale, but are the beads bigger than typical seed beads?
    I would like to see more details of the construction. Is the sole a separate piece, sewn on all around, or is it one piece of leather folded over to form the top and sole? May we see any stitching on the heels?
     
    kyratango, Any Jewelry and Debora like this.
  7. smallaxe

    smallaxe Well-Known Member

    In style, they look similar to a pair I have from the Shoshone-Bannock Tribe at Fort Hall, Idaho. That doesn't mean a lot though, as there is a lot of exchange between tribes in the modern era.
    The biggest difference is color. I would expect light to medium brown (smoked brain tan) instead of the grey of yours (is the photo true the actual color?).
     
    2manybooks and Any Jewelry like this.
  8. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    One more question about construction - is there a seam hidden under the beadwork down the middle of the vamp?
     
  9. Sdcookie2

    Sdcookie2 Well-Known Member

    Here are some updated photos PXL_20240603_152848166_copy_1134x2016.jpg PXL_20240603_152829164_copy_1134x2016.jpg PXL_20240603_152803205_copy_1134x2016.jpg PXL_20240603_153132877~2_copy_1134x1168.jpg PXL_20240603_153107723_copy_1134x2016.jpg PXL_20240603_153039382_copy_1134x2016.jpg PXL_20240603_153036184_copy_1134x2016.jpg PXL_20240603_152918300_copy_1134x2016.jpg PXL_20240603_152910359_copy_1134x2016.jpg PXL_20240603_152856656_copy_1134x2016.jpg
     
    Boland and smallaxe like this.
  10. komokwa

    komokwa The Truth is out there...!

    beads sewn into the leather with no vamps I can see..
     
  11. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    The closest comparisons I can find for the construction (soft sole, one piece folded over, round toe, oval tongue inset with little to no gathering/puckering) are from the Plateau area (Idaho/Montana/Alberta), as @smallaxe suggested.

    But the beadwork seems atypical. After searching the online collections at the National Museum of the American Indian and the Royal Ontario Museum, I have not seen that color combination on another example. It is also uncommon to see the beads applied one at a time (as it appears) rather than strung and couched, or in short strands using the technique known as "lazy stitch". It is also less common to see the beads laid parallel to the outside edge of the moccasin, rather than in lazy stitch rows perpendicular to the edge such as on these Blackfoot moccasins -

    upload_2024-6-3_16-28-56.png
    https://collections.rom.on.ca/objec...=1f5c9f49-d3fc-450f-9558-b1eb4bb03849&idx=110

    I did find a few examples of moccasins with the parallel arrangement along the edge attributed to the Plains Cree and Western Woods Cree -
    upload_2024-6-3_16-17-16.png
    https://collections.rom.on.ca/objec...tx=0d6738d4-e35b-4b7c-9db8-75c620735076&idx=6

    upload_2024-6-3_16-18-19.png
    https://americanindian.si.edu/collections-search/object/NMAI_160272

    (Note the construction is not the same on this last example, however.)

    And these from the Beaver/Dene of northern Alberta (again with somewhat different construction) -
    upload_2024-6-3_16-21-59.png
    https://collections.rom.on.ca/objec...x=bd0610ee-61b6-4c80-a429-9ca1fa34a3b3&idx=39

    I have seen native tanned leather this color. It may have been originally white (unsmoked), just with years of accumulated dust and dirt.
     
    komokwa likes this.
  12. Boland

    Boland Well-Known Member

    I have never thought about moccasins in detail before. But it is some interesting stuff. Thanks for the great info.
     
    2manybooks likes this.
  13. Debora

    Debora Well-Known Member

    Agree.

    Debora
     
  14. Sdcookie2

    Sdcookie2 Well-Known Member

    Wow thanks a bunch, that is some stellar information. I bought them because they were simple and inexpensive. They look as if they were native worn so always a good buy.
     
    2manybooks likes this.
  15. smallaxe

    smallaxe Well-Known Member

    @2manybooks - interesting points. I think you are right about the grey color. I have an old bag that was white when new, but dust and handling have turned it greyish. Pointing out the beading technique (not the common lazy stitch) is a good observation.
    For comparison, and to see if my memory was correct about the pair I have from Ft. Hall, I located the moccasins and here are some photos that show how their design is similar and how it's different. Two key differences are the tongue being straight where it attaches (and that is how other Shoshone moccasins I've seen are) instead of curved, and the flap at the ankle being an attached piece (other Shoshone examples are one piece). Note though, that these are a man's size, and @Sdcookie2 has child size. These have less bead-work than most of the Ft. Hall work you'll see. I bought these new in 1982 at Ft. Hall while living there for a winter. I was very poor at the time, so I got the least expensive pair, which was the pair with the least bead-work.
    FtHallMocs1s.jpg FtHallMocs2s.jpg FtHallMocs3s.jpg FtHallMocs4s.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2024
    komokwa and 2manybooks like this.
  16. 2manybooks

    2manybooks Well-Known Member

    A nice pair, particularly when you have their specific history.

    Moccasins have been one of the most tribe-specific items of traditional clothing. They continued to be made and worn after other items of western dress had been adopted.

    I remain puzzled by the combination of features in @Sdcookie2 's pair, and frustrated that I could not find a more definitive answer to their origin.
     
    smallaxe and komokwa like this.
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