More vintage wool paisley ????

It's definitely wool and looks machine made. Is this more Kashmiri stuff, or English like the seller thought?

 

Oh, yum! Love that orange. Not sure it's machine made - note now the white weft threads don't continue from motif to motif. But I'm seriously no expert on these, about which there is a lot to know. For example, was this India-made for the Western market? Or a Western interpretation of Indian design? Dunno.

 

Me neither. I've seen mechanically made textiles done that way too, but it's unusual and one reason I'm wondering. It's very thin, fine wool but it's big. Shawls were at one point, to better wrap them over one's head as well as one's person.

 

The shawls they wear in northern India are not tiny at all either. And yes, it gets freakin' cold up there. Long underwear and wool sarees.

 

I've seen the wool ones, come to think.... I have a friend who's up in Arunachal Pradesh; it's the foothills to the Himalayas and can get pretty cold. They don't do saris up there though.

 

Haven't got there yet. Uttarakhand is as far as I've been, and it's about 30/70 sarees/salwar kameez. All with long underwear!

 

I'm not sure you could get in; it used to be restricted. My friend's a dual citizen. Long undies would be a good idea, just as long as they're thermal and not wool.

 

Nice shawl. Machine made definitely wool. I buy and sell paisleys. I find the striped paisleys are harder to sell than the shawls with center fields. Black fields sell well but other colors sell better. Very large paisleys were popular in mid 1800s when the ladies were wearing dresses with hoops and bustles. Large shawls were needed to get around the big hoops. There are also paisleys that have double fields. The history is very interesting. The original made in the middle east were pieced together, they were hand woven in small pieces and sewn together by hand.

 

There are a couple problems with what you've said that makes me not quite confident of your assertion that this is machine-woven.

• Kashmir shawls are typically not "wool," but cashmere, which is goat hair.
• "Bustles" weren't worn in the mid-1800s, and in fact the bustle triggered these shawls' decline in popularity.
• The originals weren't made in the "middle east," but in Kashmir, which is in central Asia, just north of India and east of Afghanistan - some 500 miles beyond the easternmost border of what's known as the Middle East.
• They weren't "hand woven in small pieces". The borders were pieced, of small pieces of handwoven fabric - in imitation of the originals, whose borders were pieced-dyed in squares on the loom.

http://webapps.lsa.umich.edu/umma/exhibits/Koelz_Collection_2010/shawls.html

http://www.textileasart.com/exc_kash.htm

 

Actually I have had several that were completely hand pieced including the swirl portions. I agree most often the pieced ones are only pieced in the borders but there are some at are pieced in the body. I sold one just last year, many pieces of irregular shapes sewn together, the border was embroidered and pieced. I agree that Kashmir shawls were cashmere but when they started making them in Europe silk and wool was used. The cashmere still command some big prices. I was quick to say mid 1800s perhaps 1870 would have been or accurate.

 

I was quick to say mid 1800s perhaps 1870 would have been or accurate.

But that's my point. You say shawls were popular then, when in fact the movement toward the bustle, starting in around 1870, was the death-knell for shawls, and they were already fading in popularity by that date.

If they're not made in Europe, they're not Kashmir shawls; they're paisleys.

The bodies of Kashmir shawls were occasionally pieced, but they weren't patchwork; the body was woven in two pieces to make a larger shawl, and then those and the border pieces were joined. I know of no examples of intentionally crazy-pieced Kashmir shawls. Maybe one could be cobbled together out of intact scraps of other shawls, but that's a different story, like saying American woven coverlets were made in many odd pieces and then joined together.

I know I sound like I'm nitpicking here, but I do have a point: you're making assertions about history, construction and materials that a specialist would not. And that's what makes me doubt your unequivocal statement that this is machine-woven. It might be, but the rest of what you've said does not generate confidence.

 

So I guess we can agree to disagree. It is my opinion the striped shawl is machine made possibly in Scotland, England. They did make some paisley shawls in France. I would disagree about the piecing. I have been buying and selling paisleys for more than 35 years so I have handled many. Some have been pieced. I agree the pieced ones with the curves pieces are not common, I have had three, they sold for very high prices. I will also agree Kashmir shawls are made from goat hair. Many of them do not look like what most people think a paisley shawl looks like. I will also agree the use of the woven paisley did start to decline in the 1870-80s but was still popular and worn by many. I have to move on to something else. This striped shawl shown is usually a hard sell. I would say $125 would be excellent right now and $95 on the low side. I have decided to buy them only when they are very cheap. Did you know it was not uncommon for the family to cut up and distribute pieces of a shawl to family members when the owner died.

 

In other words, about what a new one of similar quality would sell for retail. Figures. On the other hand I didn't pay an awful lot for it, so I can sell relatively cheap and leave some meat on the bone for the next guy.

 

The condition looks really good. I would check for holes, thin spots, stains etc., and be sure you mention all those problems if there are any. If the condition is really good and it does look good in the photo try for the high side. Remember you can always negotiate down but not up. And by the way the fringe is really good and often the fringe is worn away in spots. From you photo you might even say "shows little if any wear". I certainly would have bought that to sell. In your title I would say, "woven paisley shawl, stole, throw". There are printed paisley designs so I always put the word woven in for the search. It has very nice color.

 

I can't find any thin spots or anything else. I think someone bought this as a souvenir/gift and the recipient stashed it and never used it.