Featured Japanese or Chinese ??

I leaning towards Japanese but these cloisonne things usually fool me. These seem to have had the top dipped in bronze even though the base clearly says brass. Still might be just a really good bronze paint job. There is some blue enamel just below the bronze lip on the inside - not sure why. Some of the colours have faded and possibly the whites have faded the most so they might have some age to them.
So - Japanese or Chinese??
Data - 21cm High, 11.5cm Round 0.6Kg each
Cheers
Stephen

 

Handsome vases - not so sure they're faded, @Miscstuff but lots here know lots more than I do

 

Chinese, and very pretty. The colours haven't faded, they are meant to be that way.

 

Mighty pretty.

 

How to tell Chinese from Japanese, @Any Jewelry?

 

The colour of the base for one. That blueish-turquoisy colour is typically Chinese.

 

Thanks - how about for two? Any other signs to look for? Motifs at top and bottom, maybe?

 

The shapes in the border around the top, those are Chinese mushroom shapes called ruyi. A bit like Chinese cloud motifs. Japanese borders usually have a band of circles.

 

Oh, thank you!

 

See what I mean by being fooled by cloisonne. I was thinking the half circles on the bottom lent towards Japanese
I'll get it right in a decade or so
Thanks for the help AJ.
Cheers
Stephen

 

I see clouds, @Any Jewelry !!

This is a nice little article on, guess what? Clouds (from Beadiste)

Puzzling Evidence - The JingFa Cloud

 

Mine don't have these "JingFa Clouds" so might be older than the 1950s

 

That's why I asked about the second thing.

Stick around, @Miscstuff - someday we'll "just know" the difference, like @Any Jewelry

 

Any said they were mushroom shapes, runi - a bit like clouds.

 

Beautiful colours and lovely to have a pair.

 

The clouds on Stephen's vases are cloud-shaped mushrooms, called ruyi.
A very useful site for dating the real cloud motifs, though, thank you.

Not all cloisonné has clouds. Your vases have no space for them, the flowers scared them off.

Some more on clouds:

 

I too, “really don’t know clouds” but I to watch them make funny characters in my mind.

Very nice vases.

 

my small cloisonne vase of late qing 19th,

 

Cute.