Japanese Bronze Vase

I’m thinking to buy this Japanese bronze vase from the local antique mall. I found very similar one being from the Burke collection ( second picture) But they don’t say if it’s signed. One of the differences I’ve noticed is that the crabs have different positions on the lotus leaf.
Wonder if that the one that I saw is later reproduction or from the same period?
http://burkecollection.org/catalogue/826-vase-with-lotus-and-crab

 

I'd take a modest punt. It seems the Edo period spans from 1650s to late 1800s so goodness knows where value lies. Yours "feels" and looks like the real deal to me, though. Not that I know anything about anything. But it is extremely beautiful.

 

I'd say the one you are holding is a reproduction. The bottom looks like it was aged not too long ago. If you like it buy it! If you are buying to re sell I'd leave it but that's up to you

 

Also the coloring is different between yours and the one in the catalog . The one in the catalog is more of a darker brown color while your pic has a brass look to it

 

If I were taking a wild guess, I'd say the one at the top is a museum copy of the second piece. Places like Williamsburg and the Met and MFA Boston all sell them here, generally marked as such. If this is an older piece sold in another country, who knows.

 

crab is not in same position

 

Yeah, I’ve already addressed my concern about the crab position.
It could be a later period than the museum piece but I doubt that it is a recent reproduction.

 

I think it could be the museum that had it produced, maybe on a second run. You can contact them, perhaps they can tell you more. Looks the same quality to me. I'm not concerned about color differences.

 

So, if made by museum, why not make an exact copy? Also, how long ago it has to be made to get that patina? In my opinion, it’s a natural one but not applied. MIA and the Met received the Burke gift in 2015.
If this is an old copy there has to be another example outside of the one in the Burke collection.

I contacted the Minneapolis Institute of Art. They answered that by law they cannot make evaluation of private collections but forwarded the mail to their curator. I did not get that, what’s the difference?
Anyway, hope I get a reply soon.

 

You don't know what metal alloy the piece is,what type of patina solution was used.Was an acid bath used for the patina or another solution,etc....

 

They probably meant they cannot assign monetary value to the item, but can provide information on identification. Museums generally do not do appraisals.

 

I did not asked for appraisal but mentioned the similarity to the piece in their collection and asked for opinion if mine was a later version.

Metal alloy is either bronze or brass. The patina is too uneven and again, I don’t think it was applied.

The vase has enough dents, scrathes and other wear to be older than 4 years. I assume that if the other example was in possession of Burke family prior to 2015, it’s unlikely to have been reproduced by a museum.
Unless, there are more examples in Japan and they made copies.

 

Edo period -- "between 1603 and 1868 in the history of Japan" (Wiki). I can't see any reason to think that this beautiful vase isn't 150+ years old. It looks the business, and 150+ years isn't that old, esp for such a durable medium. Benefit of the doubt is my vote.

 

It looks like an applied patina to me. I cannot answer your question about why not make an exact copy, except to say that sometimes artists make changes for their second run of art.

Please let us know what you find out about this piece!

It could be, but the fact that the museum piece is a nearly identical match, makes me believe that this is a second run for the museum. I prefer to hold my opinion until Kard receives some news about it from the museum.

 

Will keep you posted if the curator replies.
So, if second run for the museum, the vase is no older than 4 years. I just don’t see it being that young.
Could the museum have made a copy prior to acquiring the collection with the permission of the owners? But again, why make modifications to the original design?

 

By calling the (almost) matching vase a "museum piece" I think @kardinalisimo means that it is in a museum's collection, not that it was produced by the museum.
Japanese and Chinese vases were often made as pairs, sometimes with slight variations. Perhaps these two were once a pair.

 

Thanks for the clarification. Exactly, a vase in the MIA, gift from Burke’s. If souvenir copies were made there should be some popping online.

 

@2manybooks , thanks, to clarify, I meant that the vase might be one that was commissioned by a museum to sell to boost their membership.

 

So, did you buy the vase, @kardinalisimo ?

 

I did. Reasonable price even if not old. While deciding to buy or not I met the owner of the booth. He’s a long time collector, mostly Asian pieces. I had a good chat with him.

His opinion on the vase was that it wasn’t not old. He was not aware of the Burke piece. From my conversation with him I got the impression that he had some knowledge but not a deep one and definitely not an expert. But a really nice person and I have my eyes on some of his other items.