Featured Info about vintage pine needle tenerife lace basket purse?

Hi!

I have this beautiful pine needle basket purse and I’m looking for help dating it or determining where it was made. It is made of pine needles and Tenerife lace designs. It is lined in what looks like silk fabric that is hand stitched into it. Does not appear to be any wire framework - just made with pine needles and maybe straw or raffia.

It is really nice and in great condition, but it is definitely vintage.

any info on origin, age, etc. would be really interesting!

Thanks in advance.

 

I know that there is a member of the forum who makes these and knows about them but I can’t remember who it is to tag them . Someone who takes part in the Secret Santa.......?

 

Was it @Bdigger ?

 

Could be?. I remember them saying they were so busy that they may not be able to make one this year so that would fit with @Bdigger!

 

Right now said member is in lala land as far as I know - Moderna shot reaction. The handbag looks awfully familiar. Bermuda souvenir???? It looks like something women, or men bringing something back for Ma, bought in the Caribbean and brought home.

 

I figured it was a souvenir of some kind, just hoping to place it. The internet shows lots of different cultures and regions that say this lace weaving is theirs!

 

Hi all......Sorry I'm late to the party. Feeling a little better after most the day in bed. I do make pine needle baskets, but don't know much about dating them or where they might originate. That said.....this bag reminds me of ones I saw in the Bahamas in the 80's. Almost bought one for my mom. That is just a GUESS on my part. The Raffia work is nice, and the lacey cut outs are very cool. Well beyond what I would be able to do. I learned to make them from a Youtube video, and although I can cobble one together, nothing even close to this artistic. Somebody spent a lot of time on this one. @komokwa knows a bit about baskets, maybe he can help more.

 

Vintage native pine needle purse. Circa 1940. This vintage purse was most likely made by a member of one of the Southeastern tribes — such as the ...seminole.

We've seen these before.....but I can't find where...

 

per @Taupou in a 2015 comment posted on the ebay forum:

"The basket is not a "fake," but it is not Native American. It is a pine needle and raffia basket, with a Tenerife stitch on the lid. No Native American basket makers ever made this type of basket traditionally. The term "Tenerife" comes from Tenerife Island, in the Canary Islands off Spain, where the style of basket originated.

Raffia stitched pine needle baskets became popular in the southern part of the U.S. in the mid-1800s. Non-Native American women made them as a craft item. There were groups, similar to sewing circles, who met to learn to make pine needle baskets. Over time it became a "traditional" American folk craft, taught in schools, summer camps, and scout groups. Missionaries even introduced the craft to Native American tribes in the South, including the Coushatta and Seminole (who used colored thread, rather than raffia, to stitch the coils) as a possible source of income.

There are many people all over the country today that still make pine needle baskets, both with tenerrife stitching, and with other popular techniques. There are countless books available in the Crafts section of every bookstore and library on how to make them. Women's magazines for the last 100 years or so have had "How to do" articles about them. They are a common item at craft fairs and church bazaars. There are even pine needle basket "kits" sold through craft stores like JoAnn and Michaels, complete with materials and instructions.

They are attractive, and popular collectibles. But they are not Native American, and cannot be listed in the Native American category on eBay under eBay listing policy, even if it is not described as Indian or Native American in the listing, because there is simply no way to determine the ethnic heritage of the maker, and it is not a type of basket traditionally associated with any Native American tribe, despite what you may read on the internet. (By far the majority of baskets on eBay are misidentified, especially when it comes to "Native American" ones.) Some Coushatta basket makers do make pine needle baskets today, but unless there is documented proof, and the name of the maker is known, they cannot be sold as Coushatta or Native American.

With the number of both Native American and non-Native American basket makers today, there simply isn't any way to tell if a pine needle basket is "obviously native made."

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Collectibles/Native-Coushatta-Basket/td-p/24345395

 

Welcome back, glad you're feeling better

 

ooooopsy

 

I do have to say in your defense, that many "western" forms have been produced.. for centuries.. by ethnic groups around the world, strictly to sell as export/ tourist items, so that is a reasonable assumption.

 

Another related and informative discussion:

https://www.antiquers.com/threads/wicker-bowl.10938/#post-157791

 

Thanks everyone... there is some good information here for me to digest.

It is strange though that we don't see many of these types of baskets/basket handbags out on the internet (thanks @komokwa for the picture of another one!)

I wonder if they get tossed by people thinking they are just junk. I have to say, having this and looking at it up close, it really is a feat of design and handwork and I can't imagine anyone not appreciating the artistry!

 

Some tossed and some got played to death by the buyers' kids and grandkids no doubt. They weren't valued.

 

The baskets do come up fairly often on ebay, not so often for handbags; in the Native category (of course); and they are attractive, and often rather inexpensive; I've got a couple myself.
And although not originally a native craft, the Seminole and Coushatta people have been making them for more than 100 years; so if one has such a basket, bought from a tribal member, or with good provenance, of course it is considered "Native American."
It is just that looking at the style of the basket, one cannot confirm that it is native-made; and given the history of the craft, and the popularity among non-natives, there is no way to look at a particular basket and know whether or not it was native-made. Those facts preclude listing such a basket in the native category as native-made (unless one has that provenance); which doesn't prevent quite a few of them being listed there.
This is notably different than the situation with many kinds of Native American baskets, where the techniques are often very specific to the tribe, and have not been part of a non-native craft craze. One can reliable look at a Makah or Nu-Chah-Nulth basket and identify it as such, for example.
Not so with the Tenerife style, unfortunately. But it is still an interesting and rather complex technique, IMHO.