Identify possible 18th century brass candlesticks

I'm sort of at a dead end with identifying the origin and date of these two pair of candlesticks. I bought the shorter pair to the left at an antique mall. They are 8" tall and have prickets. The pair to the right are family heirlooms, going back at least 5 generations in my family. They are 11" tall, and have rather clumsy brass sockets. I believe that they also had prickets, judging from how shallow the drip catchers are. The bottom of each is a round disk of brass that is soldered in, presumably to hold the weighting in. I'm interested in where they were made, if there is a name for this style, and approximately how old each pair is. I'm thinking ca. 1700-20, possibly English. Thanks in advance!

 

can we see the bases...

 

The plain base is for the taller candlesticks, the one with rings for the shorter pair. Both are 2 1/4 inches in diameter.

 

Welcome, craiglcowing. Somebody should be along soon to help...

 

That would be great. The shorter pair I really like, and paid little for them, but the tall pair has been in my family forever..

 

Old brass candlesticks are tough to determine age on. I think this is why you are not getting much response. With those enclosed bottoms, I would assume 19th century at the earliest but could be wrong. I am certainly no expert.

 

More detailed photos might have clues. We can't tell much from the single distant photo side view,

 

The top one is one of the shorter candlesticks, the bottom is one of the taller ones.

 

My hunch is that these aren't that old. I dunno, they look too 'clean' and 'crisp'. If they were from the 18th century, surely they'd show wear and imperfections from polishing and cleaning and removing old wax and stuff?

 

You'd be surprised. I've seen early Georgian sticks that looked perfect.

 

I would imagine. The taller pair have more marks from turning than the smaller pair does.

 

In my continuing research, I have found that brass candlesticks made in England were made in two halves and brazed together. This was done ca. 1670-1770. On one of the taller sticks you can see the marks from the brazing running the length of the candlestick. I suspect the shorter pair is somewhat newer, perhaps later 18th century.

 

I think brazing is the wrong term, brazing is done at a higher temperature than these sticks would stand without melting. You braze ferrous metals together; you solder brass pieces together with a tin alloy called solder.

 

Brazing brass has been done for centuries using a low zinc brass alloy.

Modern method......... https://www.riogrande.com/Product/Sheet-Solder-for-Brass-Bronze-and-Gold-Filled/503052

 

I am glad you spoke up, I have worked with metal for years as a machinist/welder and have seen it done. However, I have found that people in different industries can and do call processes by different or incorrect names. Even within the same industry... come to think of it, in the same shop!

 

Thanks but did you mean to send me to that link, where the product is called "solder" and reference to the process is "to solder.."?

 

It's just a matter of semantics and usage of a term like Dukewright posted above.If I use a 1500F degree silver solder for silver objects it is called solder,my brother-in-law using the same "solder" at his sheet metal fabrication shop would call it brazing.

 

Whatever the process was, it involved using brass or some alloy the same color of brass to bind the two halves together, so that when the piece was turned the joint would match and would not show. In the case of my candlesticks, there are a few small bubbles, and I can feel the line down the sides. These pieces were turned, but in a relatively crude manner.