Featured Henry Green Plates - Crest Identification

I have this set of 1796 Henry Green silver plates and was wondering if anyone could provide information on the crest marks

 

Nary a clue, but I believe other will be able to help!!!

 

Just to clarify: I think that I have the maker’s and date marks correct but I am curious if anyone can provide info on the marks in the third and fourth photos.

 

See you posted a better pic of the arms without glare - my eyesight isn't what it used to be, can you do the same for the crest?

~Cheryl

 

Daniel had already deciphered the silver marks correctly, Aqui. It's the crests on the plates he looking for help with.

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Hope this helps!

 

King blackbird pie of Pearl..........................................nah, I got nuthing !

 

Hi Daniel G!

Welcome to Antiquers..........

 

Much better, but didn't have much luck, can poke around again later...

~Cheryl

 

I'm wondering if the 'device' is not for Henry Green himself. It reads to me as: a small anvil, for the smith's craft; wings to show it is an elevated, sublime art; beads for the jewellery made; &, above all, a beautiful bowl, for that aspect of the silversmith's work.

 

Thank you, Judy.

 

You may be on to something, Bron! I just found this comparable set from Sothebys that appears to have the same marks.

https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auc...set-of-twelve-george-iii-silver-dinner-plates

 

I think that nails it.

 

Acknowledging the remote possibility that these came from this same set Was this a common practice for silversmiths back then?

 

And you may be on to something, although how many were there total? 18 would be an unusual number for a set; typically multiples of 4. Maybe this was his signature line, for people with no family crest of their own but who wanted guests to know where the silver came from. Prosperous merchant, someone that way.

Think now the 'beads' are a chain, and there are some other small elements I did not address. Could you get an equally good closeup of the device on another plate for comparison? Preferably one with some obvious differences. E.g., does that little spikey thing look more like a star on some of them? Maybe it's for Durin's folk.

 

Hmmm, if they are usually in sets of four, my set of six suggests something atypical. Could be someone decided to split this set of twelve in two?!

here is another closeup

 

No - it was not, the engraving was the owner's, not the maker's. Silversmiths were craftsmen/tradesmen, and unlikely to have a coat of arms or family crest. The crest here, along with some other elements, has the wings on an ermine-lined chapeau (often baronial), it's surmounted by an ermine-banded coronet, most likely an earl's; the arms are quartered, showing the joining of different families. Depending on the wealth of the family, wouldn't be at all unusual to have very large services, split up in inheritances over the years.

Locating a potential family connection involves finding a description that contains all the elements, which would lead to an individual (though sometimes, virtually identical crests belong to different people), the crest and arms may or may not have been passed on to descendants, but were often used anyway.

Yours is complicated because there is so much going on - in a very quick look in just one book of crests, found three 'wings on a chapeau' right away and stopped there (probably several more to be found), but it's time-consuming. If yours could be found, with all the detail and the dating of the silver, would likely be a pretty firm identification, but I'm done for the moment, and it's probably well beyond me anyway...









~Cheryl

 

Thank you for sharing this insight. You possess a wealth of knowledge. Anything that you can dig up on the original ownership would be great.