Help with special-purpose iron mortar

Here are photos and some dimensions of a small, muzzle-loading cast iron mortar I'm still trying to ID. We're pretty sure it was made for some special purpose, such as line-throwing for coastal livesaving of people on stranded ships, but we aren't sure at all. Bore dia: 3.6 in., Length Overall: 14.6 in., Muzzle Flare Dia: 9.5 in., Trunnion Dia: 3.9 in. Chamber is hemispherical and looks like it would hold 3 or 4 ounces of blackpowder. The cascabel has a shallow blind hole on its axis that makes me think the piece could have been cast on a removable core. That could also be just a lathe center but it looks more cylindrical than conical. We cleaned the excess flaky rust off but left a thin iron oxide patina that's fairly uniform overall. This came from Fort Ticonderoga, NY but we think it was just a donation at some point and is not connected with that place historically, but since no provenance came with it from the fort, we don't know. I've posted the same pix and info on a cannon specialty forum but no one seems to have any promising leads for us.

If you can help us research this piece, we'd appreciate it. We've spent many hours on it but haven't come up with anything definitive. Who made it, when, where, and why?






Here's some info on early lifesaving mortars but the plate doesn't look much like our item. ???

https://springfieldarsenal.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/lt-bell-lifesaving-mortar.jpg

https://books.google.com/books?id=yipuzafUXDEC&dq=iron line throwing mortar&pg=PA289#v=onepage&q=iron line throwing mortar&f=false

 

Could it be a boat mortar? A larger pulling boat like a whaler sometimes used them.

 

Isn't that 'cute'!
I wonder if it made a loud sound like FUT when it went off?

 

This one looks similar:

A Short Barrel Cannon Overlooking The Harbor From The Wall Of.. Stock Photo, Picture And Royalty Free Image. Image 7717284.
http://www.123rf.com/photo_7717284_...or-from-the-wall-of-the-palace-in-monaco.html

 

Thanks for the ideas. The one in Monaco is a regular tactical weapon, probably French-made, probably with bore of 8 pouces, about 9 inches. It fires explosive shells with time fuzes. Very typical of a late 18th/early 19th C. Siege mortar.

Mine I think has some special purpose and does not fire explosive shells.

 

Found this lifesaving mortar that is similar. ......



From this site but no other info.

http://www.britishbattles.com/firepower-royal-artillery-museum-woolwich/

 

mortars are cool......

 

Thanks Brad, there is a lot of similarity to that one. I'll have to dig up the measurements of the museum piece and compare. Great find!

 

Some further Googling on that thought found some info on mortars smaller than Manby's used by the English Humane Society, now I need to find specs on those. They fired a 12 lb shot and took 4 oz. of powder, where Manby's took a 30 lb shot and up to 16 oz of powder.

https://books.google.com/books?id=e...A25#v=onepage&q=manbys mortar weighed&f=false

 

I put what I found on this forum, on the Cannon specialist forum and someone who knew a lot saw it and posted this, which was a nice Xmas present. Bottom line is that my mortar could be one used by the MA Humane Society during the 19th C. The book he quotes is avail in full here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=u...lth of Ma 1916&f=false-----------------------

Lt. Bell's mortar concept (circa 1791) was mounting a mortar aboard each ship and firing to the shore, and used a very large heavy mortar. Manby's concept (circa 1808) was a single lightweight, easily portable mortar which could be moved along a stretch of the coast and fired from the shore to a ship in distress. While similar, they are distinctly different in their approach. Concurrently with, but independently from Manby's proposals, Mr. Henry Trengrous of Helston, Cornwall, far from Manby's home in Falmouth, was developing a rocket launching attachment for use with a common musket so that a rocket could be used to project a line from the shore to a ship in distress. His idea could be considered as a forerunner of William Schermuly's turn of the 19th-20th Century use of a pistol adapted for rocket launching to carry a line from ship to shore.

In the same vein, Lt. David Lyle's line throwing cannons could be considered an improvement on the Manby concept, but with a lower angle of fire and a longer barrel for greater accuracy, and a lighter weight piece of ordnance, albeit with the same old goal of a line passed so that a ship's crew could be hauled to safety.

All together, the various apparatus developed by these inventors saved thousands of lives, and even today sea going vessels are require to carry specific types of approved line throwing apparatus, although realistically most rescues now involve helicopters, not life saving crews using a breech's buoy travelling on a line above the surf.


More on the life saving or "Manby mortars" used by the Humane Society of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, from:
Howe, Mark Anthony DeWolfe, The Humane Society of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts: An Historical Review, 1785-1916, Boston, 1916.
(Note: despite a similar name, they had nothing to do with cats and dogs, only mariners in distress along the Mass. coast.)


On page 233 they listed their mortar stations and dates of establishment and some information on the mortars:

“1855- Chatham Harbor
1855- Nantucket City
1855- Nausett Harbor
1855- Peaked Hill Bars
1855- Stony Beach, Hull
1858- Newcomb’s Hollow
1858- Rockport, Cape Ann
1858- Squibnocket, Martha’s Vineyard
1866- Deer Island, Boston
1867- Manomet Point, South Plymouth
Of the 10 Mortars, 8 are of Iron, the caliber about the size of a 9-pound shot, say 3 ½ inches. The one at Seer Island is of Brass, about 5 ½ inch bore, and throws a hollow shot of 17 pounds weight over 400 yards with 6 oz. powder, carrying a light 6 thread manilla [sic] line. The one at Manomet Point is also of brass, and was given by James Davis, Esq.”

 

Spring, have you contacted these guys at all?

http://www.explosion.org.uk/

Superb museum: I met the director a few years back, as we donated some family history to them. (My late FiL designed a signalling cannon.)

 

Thanks, Nick Hall, present head of the org and I should be at the same meeting in VA in a few mos., I'll mention it then.

 

That ought to work. If you ever get this side of the pond, I think you'd find it a spiffy place to visit. Husband reminds me that the thing his Pa designed was a three inch portable saluting gun. There's one on HMS Belfast: when we visited it years ago, the guide was slightly concerned when Pa started disassmbling it. We explained. He went and got other guides and Pa did an impromptu talk.

 

I did go thru all the major UK museums holding artillery before they merged, and photographed most of the items. The Woolwich Rotunda had so much stuff it took me a few days to get it all. The old fellow in charge had to find me and invite me to leave each day at closing time, I wasn't watching the time, too many toys to look at. I talked him into letting me in the long shed that was closed to the public but had hundreds of fine Cannon barrels lined up. I even found one with US markings that must have changed ownership in 1814.