Help with origin of an item from my tribe(yes, again).

Discussion in 'Metalware' started by blueblade666, Apr 10, 2020.

  1. blueblade666

    blueblade666 New Member

    The last thread I made hasn't been solved yet, but I feel having only a single picture of items(which I don't own) didn't help. So this time I've got a video accompanied with subs explaining about another item, which I hope serves better. This again is an item I don't own, but don't worry about the permissions since it wouldn't be professionally filmed and rightfully uploaded on a public platform like YouTube if it wasn't permitted. Also please understand I say it in the nicest way possible.

    Now having cleared that up, let me re-introduce myself/my tribe, and what exactly I am looking for.

    I am from a tribe called Apatani or Tanii/Tanw(autonym). Our present village is located at an isolated valley called Ziro, in the state of Arunachal Pradesh in India. Our tribe traditionally has/had no written script hence all our history is/was orally transmitted. But due to globalization and other factors, the youths have mostly been unable to keep up with the oral traditions. Though, even the older generation sometimes have a hard time recalling it. We(as in the younger generation) now generally rely on written documents by Western scholars/Indian scholars from other regions to know our own history/culture, which is sad. The bits which are not covered remain oral or are lost, which is sadder. We are losing our language in a slow but steady manner since it isn't generally spoken outside our home town/village, we use Hindi/Assamese/English as lingua-franca. I've known many who don't even understand our own language(to be fair to them, it's not totally their fault). This will inevitably lead to us losing both our history and culture. But before it happens, what we can do is give it our best shot to resurrect it, or at least try to know what remains. Human endeavor is a thing after all.

    If you got through that, first of all thanks for reading and hopefully also understanding. Now to the point. The item in the video is known as "Uyi/Ui Talo". It is a plate/gong which has been hereditarily passed down. The video will explain that. What the video doesn't say though is that this isn't the only 'Talo' in our valley. There are more, some much more older than this, in fact some so old that they are not even intact(I'd say lack of proper preservation probably aided in that). What we know is these type of plate/gong has a mythical annotation to it, and we brought it with us while migrating to our present land. Some items like Dao(type of sword) and ornamental beads were traded but I haven't heard of Talos ever being traded(at least the larger/older ones). Maybe smaller ones during marriage ceremonies but that's it. Since we didn't practice metallurgy in out traditional culture, the origin of Talo/Talos is/are shrouded in mystery(similar to items in my previous thread). As you'll see in the video, the owner himself doesn't know where it came from, and asking the locals only leads to more confusion. But in this modern age of internet I am of the opinion we shouldn't be restricted just to the locals. So that brings me here to this international antique forum where I hope to find if not the exact origin of the item, then at least a reliable lead which I can hold on to for future purposes.

    In my guess, the item could be from anywhere in Tibet/China/Burma/India. But again that's a very wide spectrum of culture/people, and the original reason I'm here, to narrow it down. So please help me. Thanks.
    Also note, though surrounded by Buddhist culture, we don't practice Buddhism. We're animists and have shamans.



    Full Video:

    The part about the item starts at 01:05:21 , and ends at 01:08:11. Around 3 mins overall. It's the full documentary video(which actually is about a clan and not specifically the item) so you'll have to manually select the timestamp.




    Below is link to the trimmed video about the item if it suits better that way. (Note: This is an external YouTube video trimming site, so proceed with your own conscience)

    https://www.youtubetrimmer.com/view/?v=nF7ToSSOzj8&start=3927&end=4093
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2020
  2. blooey

    blooey Well-Known Member

    In some ways, (and I do not mean to be facetious) the story reminds me of the dilemma of the bushman in the movie "the gods must be crazy"
     
  3. blueblade666

    blueblade666 New Member

    We are new to the developing world, that's for sure. My grandfather could only speak one language and could not write. The new gens generally can do a lot more but it comes at a price.
     
  4. antidiem

    antidiem Well-Known Member

    OH I LOVE THAT MOVIE!! Simple humor from simpler times.. :cat:
     
    blooey likes this.
  5. Bronwen

    Bronwen Well-Known Member

    Sorry to take this thread off topic, but couldn't resist the opening to make this comment. Now that so many news stories concern the receipt of a shipment of medical supplies, the failure of shipment, the diversion, the US government flying in loads and then giving them to commercial companies who distribute them to fulfill orders for their existing customers, who are not necessarily those in most need, I have felt for a while that we also have a cargo cult going, never knowing whether the goods will arrive or not, trying to propitiate the powers that be & the powers that mismanage. Rant over.
     
  6. verybrad

    verybrad Well-Known Member

    Fascinating! I do not have any direct knowledge but the part about using the gong to chase away the eclipse got me thinking. I found that this is also ritual use of such a gong in Chinese history.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=x...age&q=gong used to chase eclipse away&f=false

    The item itself really doesn't have any clues as to origin as far as I can tell. Can not tell if it is brass, copper, or bronze. What are they typically made from?
     
    PortableTreasures likes this.
  7. blueblade666

    blueblade666 New Member

    Much like most things associated with us, the origin of our tribe is unknown but the oral stories and some customs does show parallels with China/SE Asia in general. The reason the known metal items are generally attributed to Tibet/Burma/Bhutan or Assam is because we share our state border with them. Indirect trade is always possible though, and in fact term such as Dao(which we use for swords) if I am not wrong is borrowed from a type of Chinese sword.

    Talo gong/plate is generally made of brass I hear, though I'm not an expert. It hasn't been examined much scientifically, so it's difficult to assure. The real antique ones are more often not displayed.
     

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