Featured Help to ID mark red crown porcelain

Hi,
I have 3 of these plates, 2 with staple repairs. I've been googling but not finding this mark - any ideas appreciated.
thanks for looking

 

Can't help, but gorgeous plate! I'm always intrigued by staple repairs, these certainly must have some age. Hopefully someone will recognize the mark.

 

Just a suggestion from someone who is not a knowledgeable pottery/porcelain person. Wonder if this is one of the Derby red crossed batons with a crown above and a script D beneath? Possibly that partial scribble under the crossed batons is a part of a D??

Look at the red crossed batons c1806-1825.
http://antique-marks.com/derby-marks.html

Scroll down this page to #3, the mark picture is a thumbnail. Especially scroll down to #6 and check out the marks of the 1st 2 items. Click to enlarge.
http://www.derbyporcelain.org.uk/id31.html

Here is one of the marks under #6, cropped and enlarged. It is the Derby puce color mark used 1782-1800. Do note the remnant of the script D under the batons looks identical to the partial mark under your crossed batons.



Do wait for the gurus to chime in.

--- Susan

 

I'm looking for staples.....
do you mean Stable Repairs..?

 

Two have staple repairs - I'm assuming this is the one that does not.
Don

 

komokwa, nope, I mean staple repairs - I'll post a photo tomorrow. Old porcelain was repaired with staples, very cool stuff!
Don, yes this is the one without the repairs.
thanks for the links Susan, I'll go through them. I had thought Derby when I saw them but the crown is throwing me off.
thanks Lucille, I agree, these are lovely! I'm a sucker for these repaired pieces even though most don't sell for much anymore.

 

Ok.....phew...I thought my eyes ...that are going......were now going faster !!!

Yes....CX...I know about the staples.....and took a spyglass to the screen....looking for them.....

 

lol, your eyes are good, no repairs on this plate

 

And the crack down the center that touches the lower edge.....not glued ???

 

Check out red crown derby mark, 1806 to 1825 at antique-marks.com
Think that's it unless it's something very similar.

 

Here is a side by side of my mark and the 1806-25 mark. What do you folks think? To me they aren't the same but I've been wrong before.

 

here is the other mark (thanks Susan) the D does look similar but not the crown or cross mark

 

Komokwa, here are a couple of photos of the repair on one of the plates

 

Thank you CX , interesting to note that someone would take the time and effort to fix in that way.....they must think highly of the plate !!

 

Yes, I imagine they did.

 

It's hard to say... they could be the same mark by a different hand. Even though the "D" looks different in the photo with the two red marks, the letter seems to have been made with roughly the same gesture -- a looping motion from left to right.

 

CX, you're right about the differences, but to me every crown and set of crossed batons on the early Derby are different with none the same. They were all hand drawn and, like That_Object said, done by different hands. Your crown is a bit squish compared to the others, but believe that dark spot in the middle at the top of your crown is the top lobe of the crown with possibly a cross on top. CX, I'm not one of the gurus on china/porcelain/pottery, soooo all this is the opinion of an interested porcelain novice.

--- Susan

 

Cx, just a little follow-up I want to get posted before the weather turns really bad. At the moment, 6:30 CST, it is snowing with temp in the 20s. Later this morning and into the afternoon the winds are predicted to really whip up to blizzard conditions. The snow won't be the main problem unless there is a layer of ice under it. The problem is going to be the winds. With any hard winds, one can count on the electricity going out in my little corner of the world. The NE will get much more snow than us with probably blizzard conditions also.

Anyhoooo, Godden's Ency. of British Pottery and Porcelain Marks has at least 4 pages dedicated to Derby marks, pp 200 - 204. No doubt there are more with Derby info in other sections of the book. Page 201, 1253, has this mark with the following:

"Standard painted mark. c. 1782-1825. Painted in various colours: puce, blue and black, c. 1782-1820; red, c. 1800-25. As this mark was hand painted by different artists, many slight variations occur."

There is no doubt in my mind that this plate dates back to the very early 1800s if not earlier especially because of the staple repair. According to the following article this type of repair dates back to at least the early 1800s.

"Pottery, porcelain and glass items with this type of repair are often referred to as having a “museum repair”, achieved by carefully drilling tiny holes on either side of a cracked surface and attaching a series of hand forged metal staples or rivets on either side of the cracks. Evidence of this type of primitive repair dates back to at least the first part of the18th century."

http://andrewbaseman.com/blog/?page_id=2
http://ifixit.org/blog/4028/the-history-of-repair-past-imperfect/

I have at least 1 plate, maybe more packed away, handed down from my gg to ggg grandparents with staple repairs. I prize them.

--- Susan

 

Hi,
I love stapled items. It shows the love that kept them and not thrown out. My great uncle was a professional stapler in France. When he came here and married my aunt, people thought it was odd to repair items, just toss them. He was a very interesting man. I had several pieces that he repaired from my Gram. He worked for the Met when he was here. My favorite was a Homer Laughlin piece he stapled for my Gram. It was a common piece but it was my Gram's favorite coffee cup. He put 12 staples on the cup. I never knew who got the cup when Gram died or if it was tossed.
greg

 

Thanks for taking the time to post Susan - hope you stay safe during the storm! Yes, I can see how the marks would be different and agree that this is early and probably Derby. I'm not selling these, I like these stapled pieces. I love that yellow mug on the 2nd link you posted - I don't have any mugs or cups, just plates and one bowl.
Thanks greg! That is neat your uncle did staple repairs. What a shame the cup went missing, hope it will turn up in a cupboard one day rather than have been tossed out.