Featured Help identifying this cup

Hi everyone,
This has been passed from generation to generation in my family and I just wanted to see what this was made of and where it came from, as well its potential value. I googled the text on it but found no luck.

Sorry if the pics are not as clear. I'll take some more if necessary.

 

Any tiny hallmarks anywhere on it?

 

Sorry, but I don't have it with me at the moment so I can't check right now, but I'll get a hold of it this week.

 

Beautiful piece! Welcome to the board epacheco!

Can you give us a shot of the underside when you get a chance? The marks that springfld.arsenal mentioned may be tiny, sometimes are in different places, and may be very cryptic. Here's a page to give you an idea of what we are looking for:
http://www.925-1000.com/foreign_marks.html

 

So, for example on that page, see the Czech Republic marks on the right side. If you find a tiny rabbit with a tiny number 5 to its right, you have an item made of .800 (80% silver). Just an example, but the marks can be so tiny you need a good magnifying glass to make out. The English have a system with several marks that tell quite a story about a piece including its year, maker, a city. The particular marking system will depend on the country. If you find any small marks and can get a decent picture, we can tell you more.

 

The engraved words on the back say something about "wounded with roses and forget-me-not" in German. That first word may be something else, because "wounded" doesn't sound right with the flowers.

 

walk on roses and forget-me-not

German

 

That makes more sense. It's not all that easy to see the letters properly with the reflections.

 

I see no reason to doubt it was made in or around Memel (North Prussia) in the late 18th C. and would be worth comfortably more than scrap value, although a couple of centuries of polishing have done it no favours.

Any marks to look for would be those of Prussia.

 

Ok, great! Now I know what I have to look for. I've talked to my folks and I'll stop by to get it and upload more pics.

By the way, thanks for the responses so far. I'm clueless about this kind of thing and I'm glad I found the right place to post this

 

I'll get a hold of the cup tomorrow afternoon, so stay tuned

 

Since you mention that this has been passed down in your family for several? generations, do you know what your relationship is to Christian Klein and what important date in his (or her since the name Christian has also been known to be feminine) life occurred in 1791?

 

Welcome!

 

Not sure about a direct relationship with Mr./Mrs. Klein, but seems like my ancestors from one side of the family were German. Not sure if that was the origin of this cup.

Here are a few more pics from every side, top and bottom: http://imgur.com/a/DEh7j#2LNk3a8

 

On the bottom, the very worn "animal" in a round cartouche appears to be the "griffen" mark for the city of Greiffenberg. (See the link below.) The zigzag line resulted from the assayer's scraping at the silver to test it's fineness. I don't know the meaning of the block letters IACO over BI or the ML (script letters), but I would imagine that at least one of them is the maker (probably the script letters) and the other could be an indication of the assayer.

What is "missing" is the "loth number" that indicates fineness of the silver alloy, although it may have been incorporated into the griffen mark.

Here's the link to the City Marks. http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_marks_b1884_3.html

One other thing. The better picture of the engraving on the front revealed the word Wittwe as part of the words beneath Christian Klein. Wittwe translates as Widow.

 

So from what I understand, this was made specifically for Christian Klein and NOT by Christian Klein, and that the bottom letters would indicate the actual maker.

As for the griffin mark, I think you're right, since it has been mentioned above that it might be linked to Prussia.

Interesting about the zigzag liines. Those seemed out of place at first...

As for the meaning or purpose of this piece, could this be some kind of memorial gift? The text contains the "widow" and "forget me not" lines, so that's what hints at it.

 

Nobody said it was "made by" Christian at all, "made for" is possible. As I said above, the maker is probably the ML in script letters on the bottom.

Could very well be "memorial" with those words, but it seems odd that the word "widow" is just under Christian's name. Unless the German word is used for both widow (female) and widower (male.) Can you see what the 4 letters are if the word before Wittwe? I can't get a translation of anything I tried.

 

I just had an idea. I think that IACO over BI is actually the name JACOBI. Back in the 18th century, the letter I was often substituted for the letter J. We see this a lot in US and English marks of the period, so I see no reason why it would not be done in Europe as well. So now we need to figure out whether Jacobi was the assayer or the maker.

I've been running various searches on the Silver Forums associated with the site from which I got the German City Mark page above, but have not found anything yet - other than it triggering the "I for J" brainstorm.

 

It's seel or feel, neither of which mean anything