Help Identifying Reed & Barton - 0.500 grade Silver Item

Hi,

I have a Reed & Barton item that I am not sure what it is. Does any one recognize the form? i.e. a toothpick holder - tableware; shot / jigger - barware etcetera?

What does the script lettering mean? Is it a custom monogram or did Reed & Barton create it? The script lettering is extreme? I see;

N Y C & H Y (?) (New York City?) Can't make out the rest.

My guess; The letters are monograms for 2 people. Custom punched, after this was made and bought. A wedding gift? A gift for a wedding party? Perhaps a company dinner souvenir?

This is not silver plate and acid tests show a 0.500 silver grade (the Silver acid turned green).

How Old is it? An antique?






So I'm puzzled.

DIMENSIONS; Diameter top 1 1/2"
Dia. bot. 1 3/8 in.
Height; 1 15/16"
Weight; 2.14 oz.

Any feedback in identifying this will be appreciated.

Regards, 2020lens

 

Silver Soldered is generally used on silver plated hollowware, not sterling. And that hollowware is often what is referred to as "restaurant" or "hotelware" since those kinds of places need very durable goods on the table. And the are often used by railroads as well.

The initials looks like NYC&H to me. I don't see a Y there. New York City and .... a place starting with H might be Hartford? There's something blurred by wear following the H.

Use would require size. Can you provide measurements please?

 

That's probably HR at the end - New York City and Hudson River railroad.

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...AhWL9Z4KHWHxClUQjJkEegQIChAB&biw=1536&bih=694

 

Hi,

Many thanks for all the information! It lead me to this;

The script is the stylized logo for the,

New York Central & Hudson River Railroad, 1869 - 1914, Vanderbilt.

Apparently I stumbled on ANTIQUE Railroadiana! It has the potential to be quite rare and collectible.

I never dreamed for a dollar I would buy something so nice.

I would have never have figured it out without your help.

Again, Many Thanks

Regards, 2020lens

PS. I forgot to mention the capacity is 1.0oz.

 

Hi,

Also, I found these examples of the logo on-line;






What is interesting is that in these three examples of the logo all have different styles with mine being the fanciest. That usually means that it is an earlier logo. Closer to 1869 than to 1914. And of course companies usually document when the logo changes so you can then date your item by the logo.

Regards, 2020lens

 

@2020lens - Welcome to the forum!!

Possibly a matchstick or toothpick holder.

 

Hi,

Thank you Bercrystal.

It has been verified on Railroadiana.com that it is a toothpick holder used in the dinning car of the NYC & HRrr as a part of the tableware series 764 made by Reed & Barton. (How great is that). There're reference books that contain period catalouge photos showing tables in different RR dining cars that are set for service that are used today for references in identify particular (period) items of hollow ware (Railroad ware/Railroad table ware) for different train lines as well as the maker of them.

Unfortunately the date of a catalogue showing different railroad ware does not verify when various pieces where first used.

Regards, 2020lens

 

Hi,

Another problem with this piece is that the information I received from the other web site states that this tooth pick holder should have been a nickel silver alloy that was silver plated in .925 silver. There are two problems with that;

1. It acid tested to a 0.500 grade purity not .925.

2. If you look at the two other photos supplied the bright surface shine looks like .925 silver plating and mine has a lot duller surface.

As I said originally, this item does not look as if it is silver plated! It would seem certainly not in .925 silver. ie. It is a solid silver piece.

I read that when the Comstock load (silver) was discovered that it effected the supply and demand for silver and drove the price of silver down in the markets. As a result of this, silverware makers who up to then found it cheaper to use silver plating, but when the price of silver dropped and then became competitive with silver plating manufacturing, some companies switched back to making their items out of our silver because solid silver was more desirable to their customers.

Regards, 2020lens

 

Given the use of "silver soldered" on your item (whatever it turns out to be) it is IMHO more likely to have been made post-1900 then pre-1900.

How did you do the silver test? Directly on the item or on a testing stone?

 

Hi,

Interesting point about the use of silver soldering could be use for time frame dates. I will look into that as a way to provide a period for this piece.

I tested both ways. I found that the stone is far more difficult to interpet than testing directly on the piece - if you can find a good location. Also, if your don't leave the acid on too long it can be rubbed out. But be prepared to use some elbow grease and to spend some time in achieving the desired results.

As an aside, I wonder why Vanderbilt liked this style of font for his railway logo's?

Regards, 2020lens

 

My comment above about pre and post 1900, is not about when silver solder was first used, but rather about when the term seems to have been more likely used in marking. I did find a post on the 925 forum that displayed an 1887 Gorham silver advert for their own line of restaurant ware that mentions silver soldering.

 

Your testing results are incorrect, it is not solid silver, it is electroplated, the silver anodes used for plating were and still are typically .999 silver rather than .925 - and .500 silver wouldn't have been used at all, whether solid or plated.

No idea why shiny versus dull would have any bearing on whether solid or plated silver.

Silverplate was and is a less expensive option than solid silver.

The sturdy silverware used in commercial venues would have been heavily plated to endure extensive use and intense cleaning methods - solid silver, in addition to the additional cost, would not be as durable and because of its intrinsic value, much more likely to be stolen, and a more substantial loss for the owners.


1884 Gorham ad for silver soldered restaurant/hotelware:




~Cheryl

 

Hi,

Thank you DragonflyWink for that date, and advertisement, for solid-silver in-use in 1884. That is a good early date. I have since determined that the toothpick holder is nickel silver and is silver-plated. I found mention the use of silver solder is for silver plated items. Not for solid silver pieces.

Your observation of dull vs.shinny surfaces is a good one. The dull surface patina may be pointing to this item being early, pre-1800's as would be expected for something that can be circa 1869 (over 150 years old.)

Although it would always be great to nail down a better time period. I like finding out details, story, of the antique items I buy based on a hunch on the cheap. (underpriced) It completes the antique hunt whether a success, a gold nugget, or not, just another piece of junk. But with this one, I'll call it an antiquing success. Even without a date.

Again Thank you,

Regards, 2020lens