Featured Help identifying age on Noritake porcelain

So, what I can gather on this Noritake porcelain piece is that the 'Made in Japan' inscription on the makers mark means this piece was made for a western audience, so I speculate it was made sometime between the 50's and 80's. Any help identifying the age is appreciated.

 

Take a looks through the Noritake marks here. https://www.gotheborg.com/marks/noritake.shtml

 

Ah much appreciated, I did not know this site existed, Cheers

 

That's an early one, 1908 until about 1920.

 

Yes I think you may be right, after looking through the website posted above it does seem to be from that time period, a bit earlier than my 1950's guess

 

Yes just as Ce BCA has determined, that mark on your ware is an early back mark. This is the 1950's one below left and the one below right is your one.



However bear in mind many of these early variation marks were used up until 1941.

 

Usually when you have a Noritake you can trace the design and pattern to a specific point in time. For example one of the earliest patterns from Nortiake was the Sedan pattern, and the symbol avoe was used on their earliest patterns. If you find a vase with beautiiful painted roses, with this mark then you likely have found one of their earliest patterns and they fetch good money. I have a picture of two vases i have with this mark.

The earliest design....



Also with this mark you have to be careful as during the war time, some of the made in Japan was etched off, leaing what appears to be this backmark.

 

i have a noritake book and i can check the design, but i would put my money on it that Ce BCA is right with up to 1920. Seems about right.

 

Does the floral design of Noritake always mean that a specific piece was made in the early 1900's or did the floral design continue to be used later in to the 50's/ 60's? Or is it entirely dependent on the makers mark to determine a piece's age?

 

Yes, for some patterns, however the Maruki mark is the best indicator as it will always be present.

Pattern 175 ran for 86 years.



You can see a comprehensive pattern guide here. The backmarks are a huge help, but there is other factors, quality, whether handpainted. Noritake did not make all it's products to the same Quality, and the older products can tend to be much better quality and handpainted.


http://www.noritakecollectorsguild.info/patterns/patterns.html


I will find the pattern number and name of the Rose design. Then we can check when it was discontinued and for how long it ran. As it is handpainted i doubt it can easily be reproduced.

 

So, I have been comparing my other pieces of Noritake to the different linked websites above and I believe my other pieces have the 1902 Maruki mark. But I would like to see what you think.

 

I found this in Joan Van Pattens encylopedia of Noritake; Just to be clear Van Patten did find lots of Nippon Moriage ware, made before 1921 but couold not find any made after 1921.

Quote:
Being a 'nipponologist' i researched pieces produced in the nippon time period 1891-1921. However when collecting later Noritake peices i noticed a conspicuous
absence of wares decorted in moriage fashion and also those employing the tapestry technique ans the use of beading and incised decoration. I was hard pressed to find any such as this between 1921 -1941. If any do exist they were most likley made in the early twenties following the trend set during the Nippon years. It makes one wonder why they dissappeared as they were so popular. Most of the techniques did require a great deal more work than others and perhaps in an effort to keep prices low they were discontrinued in favour of the use od decals or it was just a sign of the times. Decals gave the appearence of being handpainted but could be applied quicly and inexpensivley. Decals were usually touched up by handpainting, so since it still invoilved hand painting the item could truthfully bear the backamrk /backstamp haind painted noritake.

****************************END

So as with the rose vases i posted above these are the earliest and are actually handpainted, they are not decals. I cannot say what other Noritake ware such as the meadows etc, whether they are decals or haindpainted but i am guessing they are decals.

So it is very rare to find truly haindpainted Noritake, and these rose vases, and i have a tea set also painted too, are among the first and very rare. I will try get a picture of my other noritake rose if i can.

The fact they are roses on my noritake does not compare to your Nippon Moriage Moonbasket posted above because as Nippon was so handmade it is not so signifigant as they can paint many variations using many styles, in any case the manner in which the roses are painted are different, but the vase i have would have been painted in production line manner where they are all similar.

There is also a small chance my noritake vase are decals. I have not used a super magnifying glass on them. I just know they are a very early design, that was used in the nippon era and they did not use decals during that time and so they are usually attributed to being handpainted.

I will use a super magnifying glass to make 100% sure in the future.


What is Nippon to Europe

I recall somone once asking what the difference is between Nippon and the european counterpart in the uk, as Nippon is a uniquely American word or term, but i guess there has always been more to Nippon.

One the Nippon items are generally handmade, hand painted and of better quality in that respect. Later Noritake are commonly Decals.

2. Nippon became such a trend that i is highly prone to fakes, whereas in europe that was never the case, and so finding authentic 19891-1921 Noritake, Japanese moriage is much easier and they are much more likely to be authentic.

In USA there are many copies and fakes cashing in on the popularity of Nippon.

Please see this for many fake marks..The mark on your moonbasket is not in the list of fakes but this is worth reading.
https://www.realorrepro.com/article/New-Porcelain-Marked-Nippon

https://myriadtradingco.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/nippon-backstamps-and-known-dates-of-manufacture/

The backmark on your Moriage moonbasket looks like the early Noritake mark for sure. You will need to research Noritake moriage moonbaskets, any authentic Nippon ware is usually quite sought after. So if Noritake made Moriage Moonbaskets then it is defiently worth researching that, i coudl not find the moriage moon basket mentioned or published in Joan Van Pattens encylopedia of Noritake. However Van Pattens encylopedia is not all that comprehensive.

Noritake Moriage is rare, if you in the USA with a Nippon that has the UK noritake mark then you will wan to research Noritake and make sure they made these. I googled this and there are many nippon examples and soem that have the Handpainted flower backmark for the Moriumur brothers.

Maybe see if Morimur borthers sent these Moon baskets to the Uk with the Maruki mark instead of their hand painted mark. I apologies for the late reply and for not being able to help you more with this Moriage basket.
I cannot say if it is authentic or not, I am not experienced with Nippon moriage. I am more familiar with european noritake.

 

https://www.eldreds.com/auction-catalog/Online-Only:-Nippon_DBYT2AYXN2/

This auction house have a large selection of Nippon Moriage moonbaskets on their site, but the selling prices do not seem very high- They estimate $200 but some are selling around $80. Also i cannot say whether Eldreds items are all authentic but they apparently seem to be a relaticely large auction house but i would not buy many of these personally as many seem very crude and as i said i am not an expert in Nippon moriage especially USA Nippon.

 

Cheers for the information, after reading through the linked websites I am surprised by how much some pieces of Noritake can sell for. When I browse antique shops I always look for a bargain and/ or rare pieces of other porcelain as well as Noritake to add to my growing collection as a sort of investment. As for the moonbaskets being real, I believe they are genuine after looking through the links you provided and some other websites I found, as well as comparing them to my other pieces of Noritake. Also, I know that the shop I bought them from usually checks for fakes/ reproductions before they put them up for sale. Thanks for the help.

 

That is great to hear, It is unsual to see the Uk registered mark in the usa. Howver you should be able to tell by handling the vase whether it is likley to be genuine.

I see no signifigant reason why it would not be genuine. They say 50% of all art is fake so i always bear that in mind.