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Hello to All!
I’m just a guy who knows nothing about antiques, besides that fact I am one myself. I’ve had what I consider to be an honest to goodness antique for about 30 years. Every 10 years or so, I get tired of just walking past it and figure instead of just having it, and initially repairing the damage that was on it, I’d like to see if I could learn more about it. So I find you all…..the people that should be able to possibly help in taking my earlier investigation to a deeper level.
My question is this…….is there a resource somewhere online, besides a hit and miss image search on google, that is a sort of anthology of antique pieces, somehow classified by type of piece, construction method, construction material, time period for construction method, etc. that might give more information than what I was able to discover just after I decided to keep my piece instead of discarding it?
I had an old three unit apartment building I bought back in the mid 80’s that had been converted to 6 units. The conversion however, left the rear three apartments without closets. When I inherited the building it came with a HUGE oak armoire as one of the closet solutions. It is like a 9 piece puzzle that just sits there under its own weight. Because nobody takes care of rented property like they owned it, you can guess it suffered because of that. Either the drawer, one of the doors, always seemed to be an issue with it every time we went in to clean for a tenant change. I honest to god had a estwing hammer and hatchet in my hand to just get rid of it when my wife found the missing pieces in the basement, and yelled up at me to not start breaking it down. Someone had screwed a circular tie rack on the inside of one of the doors…..it was just sad with broken carvings, screw holes….etc.
Anyway, I’d love to know as much more about it as I can find, and best methods to make it as nice as possible and not leave my kids with ANOTHER project from dad.
I built my house with a little over 9’ ceiling in my master bedroom so it could be protected and assembled up there. It has no markings on it.
Ive traced it back to early 1900s from the family I bought the building from before older people that might have acquired it had passed away.
I’ll attempt to include a picture so anyone can get an idea what I’m describing. The earliest member of the family said at one time it was used by a priest as a vestments closet, but I don’t give that any credence because there is NOTHING in the carvings that suggest any religious connections…….anyway…..ANY comments would be helpful.
Thanks in advance to anyone who could help in guidance to refinishing or identifying it’s possible origins. I think it’s worth more effort. You may not agree, but it’s like a family member now….
STAY SAFE ALL!
Geoff

 

An interesting piece of furniture, Geoff...I can't imagine the effort in moving it, even striped to its component parts. Hardwood, of course...and some heavy, for sure.
Thanks for the pic!

 

It is no light weight for sure. It’s all solid oak. Fits together perfectly. The sides have dowels top and bottom. The bottom and canopy have mortised metal “pockets” and the doors have mortised metal pins that fit in the pockets. The sheer weight of the canopy top pins the sides, doors, and back in place. The doors open and close like butter. The paneled back help to keep it square. When I had the damage on it repaired, I asked the shop to install a new, kind of like, “strong back” reinforcement to the base to prevent sagging of the bottom down onto the drawer below. This seemed to be partly why it was always being removed by tenants. Also not visible is a diagonal oak slat I asked for behind the back panel that really locks in the square. I was hoping this type construction would help identify who, when, where it might have come from. It was not cheaply thrown together. I think it’s a proper piece of furniture for it’s time. The adjustable shelf in it is scalloped out so the hinge side of the doors can swing into it. The shelf can also go all the way up or down to the base and sits in four…jagged, like lightning bolt shelf standards that are in each interior corner.
When it was in the shop being repaired, a person who refinishes things like this begged me…..seriously…..to let him refinish a piece of it just so he could say to himself he worked on something like this. I’m not fooling. It made me think at least I wasn’t just flushing money away having it repaired. Anyway I let him do the door on the right. I’m seriously thinking of having the whole thing finally attended to so it can be the best of itself. I think I owe that much to it.

 

And the doors in the pictures in my room are full height 6-8 interior doors. It’s tough to illustrate the full scale of this behemoth. It’s not small. It’s really not small.

 

It had its origins in the higher-end market, judging from all the carvings and details of construction. Would love to see close-up photos of those if you're so inclined.

 

Here is one or two more I have on this device…..I’ll try to do more soon. What constitutes a authentic antique? I have an old oak fireplace mantle I made from one alter rail that was in an old orphanage my father in law had owned to convert the building to apartments. It was set on fire by some teenagers and he never completed the conversion. I took some chapel pews, the pew ends, and one alter rail wasn’t damaged from the fire, or the fighting of the fire. I reconfigured it to make the mantle for my father in law but when he sold the house, he gave it back to me and when I built my house, I bought an insert that would work with it…..the building isn’t quite as old as the armoire. Not sure this even qualifies as an antique, I’m just a former finish carpenter that had some fun. For sure tho it’s one of a kind. Like all of us….. I know it’s missing one of the applications on the top crown….the headless pin nail holding it in let go and I have like 5 extra replacements saved…..The only other thing I saved from the building was the tower bell…..150 lbs of bronze inscribed for the Franciscan orphanage from Maneely bell in Troy NY in 1912. (Cited from: https://www.antiquers.com/threads/hello-forum.70921/#post-4471356)

 

Sorry……I’m not too good at this….

 

It is a proper antique, being at least 100 years old. I think it is more likely circa 1880, exhibiting some hold-over from renaissance revival furniture mixed with some classical detailing. I am not convinced it is American, though it could be a big city East coast piece.

The detailing on your mantel is Gothic revival. Could have been made any time since it was extremely popular for religious buildings well on into the 20th century.

 

Thank you for the comments and opinions!! I know the bell I have was a gift from the architect of the orphanage building when it was made. It’s got 1912 on the bell itself. The chapel is original to the building also. It burned, if I remember, in 1979. You don’t normally see alter rails in residential houses, and the only shape I could think of at the time was to re purpose it was a mantle. It’s good at least part of it survived. It was a sad story. Building set fire to…..FD extinguishes it in reasonably quick order…..however inside of 24 hours it was burning again. Was only days before people were helping themselves to anything of value they could get out of the place. I had also taken a huge, like 2” thick, back door to the building I was planning to use to make a Dutch door out of when I subsequently built my house but I had it in the basement of my apartment building and along with my fathers inherited working desk, leather desk chair, glass top…..all got stolen along with a very large two stage compressor out of the garage……just sad all round……
In questioning everyone I could find on the armoire? Wardrobe? there was never even a hint it was brought here from someplace else….but….I guess the more you think you know, the less you actually know…. I’d just love to know more…..not that it’s anything really special, but even looking on google images, I don’t see many that appear to be put together with this type of manufacture…..
THANKS AGAIN!!

 

That is a gorgeous wardrobe, and I have to applaud the mantelpiece as well. I'm quite certain verybrad is darn close on the date of the wardrobe (he almost always is). I have no problem believing it was used for vestments; I wouldn’t necessarily expect a priest’s closet to be decorated with religious iconography, and as it was not unusual for a younger son of a wealthy Catholic family to enter the priesthood, it could easily have come from his childhood home. Or been donated to the parish house by a wealthy parishioner.

It seems awfully large to ship overseas, but anyone who had ceilings high enough for the piece and enough clothing to require a closet that size would have probably also have a not inconsiderable income.

 

Thank you Born2it for the input! I have done much searching since I first posted and still can’t find another that has the this type of “knock down” no tools method of assembly. Probably was considered a necessity due to the whole thing together has to be a few hundred lbs and is problematic for going up stairs, through doorways….etc. I look at my own pictures, and it doesn’t do the size of this any justice. The alter rail conversion was one of my first finish carpentry “projects”. Broke it down into pieces and started shuffling them around to see what I could make that was symmetrical and didn’t look like you tried to make something out of something it obviously wasn’t . It’s believable I thought. The back of the breastplate is one of the pew seat boards. They were all in tough shape with the water that went through the chapel and falling ceiling debris during the firefight…..I only have 4 pew ends that remain. About 2” thick oak. Thanks Again!
Geoff

 

Knockdown wardrobes are pretty common for the mid to late 19th century. Some use some simple hardware but many do not. Not sure why you are not finding any.

Here is a video showing typical European construction for one.......

Collapsible Knock Down Pine Wardrobe Assembly Demonstration Video - YouTube

 

Here is one that is somewhat similar to yours. I think it is a bit older than they state and take the price with a big grain of salt.

Early 20th Century Oak Knockdown Wardrobe | Etsy

 

Yeah!! There I go…..knock down too!! Like I said, I know nothing about real antiques. I always thought of this like something that someone in my family would fight for after I was gone….not fight like it sounds….but take care of it. Don’t damage it anymore…..help it in anyway they could….bring it forward and try they’re best to leave it in better condition than they found it in fight for it. My youngest son shops at a local fair in Brimfield MA every year. I’m not entirely sure if this story is correct….but about 30 yrs ago, just after I had it’s damage repaired, I went with my sister who lived in Wilton CT, to a HUGE place called I think United Home Wrecking, or something similar. They had very similar to mine pieces that weren’t near as big, or carved like mine, and back then they were asking 5500.00 for it. I know it’s only worth what anyone would pay, and a price is usually just a beginning price to a negotiation in a place like that…but I’m sure mine isn’t worth just dirt….even in the condition it’s in. The more I talk about it here, the more confidence I get that I should finish what I started with it……I think of it like a diamond in the rough. Somewhere in there is a conversation piece if I put the effort in. I’m just not in the habit of inviting people up to my bedroom to discuss it. It still has potential, in spite of me.

 

Well…..I lied…..after watching the video, I examined mine close up for the first time in a long time. On the inside, it’s what I would call completely finished. If it were empty all the pieces look smooth, tight fitting. Stained bottom inside on the canopy, interior sided, base top., etc. Only thing harsh on the eyes are the 4 corner notched wood shelf support standards. AND I didn’t remember, but there is one bolt on each side that will permanently draw the canopy down on the dowels. You can’t see the dowels because the sides are 1 1/2” thick and they are drilled up and down hidden in the middle. There is a finish nut that has no flat sides you would use a wrench with but has holes through it you would use like a nail set to snug the top down. I’ll take some pictures. The doors used to be able to over open some and get too close to causing damage and when I added the brace to the bottom, it was put in so it could double as a door stop. The adjustable shelf used to attempt to accomplish that with its scalloped sections but what I did was a much more accurate, and positive door stop. It takes two complete turns of the key to get all the lock bolts engaged. One between the doors and one up in the canopy and one down in the base. So….it’s not original anymore. Hopefully a bit more protected from casual use.

 

They really should have been called "knock-out" pieces. They tend to come away suddenly all of one piece. We've had three incidents in so many months. Dangerous things.

 

Well the one in the pictures I posted of mine I could put out in the driveway during a hurricane, and I’d bet my life and the lives of my kids it would not even creak. It’s sat there for 30 years and my wife uses it to death. It’s tight as a frogs butt, and that’s watertight. Those bolts I mentioned aren’t even tight. Just in place so as not to lose them. Unless you opened the doors, or used it, you wouldn’t understand the sheer heft of it. There’s 4 3/4” hardwood dowels in each side. The diagonal piece I mentioned in the rear of it isn’t even needed. It was just me trying to over think whoever made it thinking I could improve on it.