Heavy Bronze 2-Handle Mortar-Censor...Age??...Chinese??...ID Help

Discussion in 'Antique Discussion' started by SPERLS, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. SPERLS

    SPERLS sperls

    Any help appreciated..4" Tall IMG_2659.JPG IMG_2662.JPG IMG_2661.JPG
     
  2. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    I'm gonna guess that it is mid-20th C. when lots of bronze mortar and pestle sets about that size were made in many different styles. Those made without figural decoration, like yours, were probably made for actual use and more toward mid-20th C. Those with four lions or gargoyles around the sides were late 20th C. or later and are probably still made. Yours is good quality workmanship, cast then lathe-turned, but I don't think you will be able to get a much earlier dating guess in the absence of markings of any kind. Yours would have come with a cast-bronze pestle. The bronze mortar-and-pestle set is a popular tourist souvenir item in many countries so it is hard to tell if this one was made for that or for grinding herbs etc.
     
  3. Ladybranch

    Ladybranch Well-Known Member

    >...bronze mortar and pestle sets about that size were made in many different styles. Those made without figural decoration<

    I agree. A year to possibly 5 years ago a query was posted about one of these over on eBay antiques. I believe these were commonly found in apothecaries from possibly the mid 1800s to the mid-1900s. Like Spring said were reproduced like in the mid 1900s. Many had the handles like this one. Scan the following page to see some with the handles:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=bro...h&q=handled+bronze+pestle+and+mortar&imgdii=_

    --- Susan
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2015
  4. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    Susan, thanks for posting the image collection, way more variations of those than I'd ever seen.

    If anyone is lucky enough to find an original bronze, Dutch 17th or 18th C. apothecary mortar, please be $ure and $upply $pring with $ufficient informa$hun!
     
  5. SPERLS

    SPERLS sperls

    Thanks Springfld & Sue for your great answers & Pictures!

    I have a second one...A little bigger & maybe older?? IMG_2753.JPG IMG_2754.JPG IMG_2756.JPG IMG_2757.JPG IMG_2759.JPG

    IMG_2758.JPG
     
    spirit-of-shiloh likes this.
  6. 42Skeezix

    42Skeezix Moderator Moderator

    I think they are both original as in "...these were commonly found in apothecaries from possibly the mid 1800s to the mid-1900s," not a later twentieth century repro.
    Old ones just aren't rare. I've had several, complete with pestle, over the years. Even had an 18th. century glass example once.

    Tip. Functional mortars have rounded interior bottoms. A shape more conducive to the grinding motions. I think you can see rounded bottoms in both of OPs examples. More modern non functional "decorator" pieces often have bottoms like the inside of a drinking glass, flat with abrupt transitions to the wall of the vessel.
     
  7. springfld.arsenal

    springfld.arsenal Store: http://www.springfieldarsenal.net/

    My guess is that the larger one may be older. made for actual use, looking at how scratched up the bottom is, the dents, bends etc. I can see that one having been slid around on a marble counter a good but and dropping off onto the floor a few times.

    Smaller one I still think is souvenir type but since it can't talk we won't know, unless someone takes a sample of the bronze and has it analyzed. If there's any trace of aluminum in it, it is probably post-1900, and if not, probably earlier. There was little if any aluminum in the scrap metal trade prior to 1900, and since about that time, there are traces of aluminum contamination in virtually all nonferrous alloys.
     
  8. SPERLS

    SPERLS sperls

    You are correct...The larger one was banged around alot...The owner even went through the trouble to repair it!

    IMG_2760.JPG
     
  9. spirit-of-shiloh

    spirit-of-shiloh Well-Known Member

    "more conducive to the grinding motions"

    :p:p:p:joyful::joyful::joyful::muted:
     
  10. Ladybranch

    Ladybranch Well-Known Member

    On that Google page of doubled handled mortar images, note the 5th one from the left in the top row- looks shiny. It appears to have the same diamond shape around the handles as yours. It was on the liveauctioneers.com website. I tried to find it, but the site doesn't have it online anymore. When that pic is clicked and go to the site, it says "Sorry auction ended" and has other mortar & pestle pictured.
    http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/10790710_bronze-two-handled-mortar-and-pestle

    [​IMG]

    Without the pestles, the value of yours may be minimal?

    --- Susan
     
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