Featured Gorgets, Points, Pipes, pottery and Popeye

We have 100s of native american points, about 6 or 7 pipes, a few gorgets and various other items.

I posted some to a NA FB group and some think they are all reproduction.
90% of these come in a bad that dates the year they were found and the location.

The people who owned these had them sent off to someone here in North Georgia at one point to catalog what they had.
We do not have the catalog and there is no telling where it is.
This is from hand written paperwork back in the late 80's.
I havent fully read the paperwork.. There was just no time today (sounds crazy, I know.. But there is just so much STUFF! Its hard to know where to focus first )
Im wondering if they had them professionally cleaned as well.

Im not sure about them being reproduction.
I found one piece today that had written on it "possible reproduction", so it looks like it was called when they were in doubt.
Some are also marked "museum quality"..
Many of them have metal ID tags (much like dog tags) like someone had plans to display them.


Id like to find someone to physically come out to look at them..
Someone who actually knows and has handled quality items..
But who do you call?

What do yall think??

 

Regretfully I do not see any patina on the points. Once it is there is doesn't clean off. The first one is poor quality stone, the second and third were knapped by an expert but I don't think they are very old. The pipes are convincing but I am not an expert. I have personally spent years hunting the points in the Midwest and know what I am looking at on them though.

 

This is a superb example of patina. This link goes to one for sale that you can enlarge. Look at the second picture in the grouping and you will clearly see the rust colored discoloration half way across the face just above the neck that you want to see on a genuine point. They will all have some trace of this unless they are obsidian which is black volcano glass or a few unusual gemstone pieces. https://www.terapeak.com/worth/auth...ct-nice-patina-mineral-deposits/132113463200/

 

SeaGoat, I don't know where you are in GA or where these were found/made, but have you thought about inquiring at the Indian Mounds Museum/Park in Bartow county near Cartersville for someone to help ID the pieces? Maybe they can give you a lead...
Patd

 

Ive been reading about Patina on NA artifacts.
It seems varying regions will have different types of patinas due to the different soil types..

Theres so much info out there, conflicting information at that!
I just need to find someone who has turned this into their life's work.

 

I did not know they existed..
I found peach state archaeological society. I might contact them as well

 

I don't deal in prehistoric items, so I won't offer any observations on the points. I can offer some information on the pottery, especially the white one with the black line decoration, displayed in what appears to be a South Pacific wood bowl.

The pot is Shipibo, made for the tourist market, from Peru. It looks old but was first produced in the 1940's, and is still being produced for export today. The Shipibo used to make plain, undecorated pottery for their own use. After World War II, missionaries to the area convinced the potters that if they decorated the pots with the traditional designs used on their textiles and face painting, they would have an item that would sell well on the market. It became the tribe's main source of income.

The other pots are traditionally fired, but don't appear to be particularly old. The spears in the same photo as the pots also appear to be modern, a mix of tropical wood and bamboo.

 

The gorget with the "Hamsa Hand " looks middle eastern,the brass bladed knife may be Pacific NW NA but need better photo.

 

The hand eye symbol is that of Native American
I thought it was kind of weird myself, but...
(I think one of these were from Miss and another from Tenn)


"Native American Symbols, like the Hand Eye symbol, can vary in meaning from one tribe to another and across the culture groups of North America. The Hand Eye symbol was used by the ancient Native Americans of the Mississippian culture."
https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-american-symbols/hand-eye-symbol.htm

 

The dagger I believe is Tlingit.
Whether its modern day... idk

 

either I'm on the wrong thread or we've already discussed the knife and several other items...........

 

We have..
We just brought the knife from the house yesterday. It was laying next to the "pre Columbian" items I was taking pictures of.

The points brought up in a previous thread are already sold and gone.
This is an entirely different set, this is the one tucked away in the mans dresser

 

how did those points compare to these?
maybe contact the same buyers...

 

If these are real they are piddle in comparison..
Theres a few people Ive got already wanting to come look at these, though they are still not sure if they are fakes.

 

It is not quite fair to call them fakes. I know a man who belongs to a group of diehards who flint knap and make bows the old way and hunt with them. They are very proud and do not do it to deceive. Here is an ad for a gathering of artist that has just passed in August. http://gvknappers.tripod.com/webonmediacontents/Stone Tool Craftsman Show 2017 Flyer.pdf

 

He has even shown me how to use an atlatl which is how these are meant to be used.

 

Absolutely right.
Since healing hand and hand-eye symbols are universal, it is always best to look at the details for determination of the culture.
Healing hand and hand-eye symbols are originally Shamanic symbols, which have been maintained in many post-Shamanic spiritualities, often as protective amulets. To avoid any Shamanic connotation, they can be called Hand of Buddha/Miriam/Fatima, or hamesh/hamsa, which just means five. Five is significant as there are five books in the Torah, and five pillars of wisdom in Islam.
In Shamanism, hands, whether with or without an eye, stand for the transfer of Shamanic power, knowledge, insight, wisdom. Shamanic hands without an eye are usually symbols of healing.

 

I went through about 50% of the 13 boxes of arrow heads we have and the paper work..
The letters are from a man named Floyd Fry and one from Bob Buzzard. Turns out this guy made this man arrow heads..

A man would order the kind he wanted, the maker would make them, send the buyer a mold of it till he was satisfied with the final project, then send him the actual point.
These letters were dated 83' and 84' as well as most of the modern points.
The recent (vs artifact) ones were all marked, "Made by 'X' in 1984 for MAB" (the man's initials)

There are a few boxes full of one's that I believe are real.
They'll have a ref number on the bag, a description, "fd by so&so on his great grandfathers farm in "this location" on "this date"

Some just give a location, date, and site 7

Some bags give type, location, weight, price or a variation

Some of the metal ID tags state what type of point they are, if they are modern made, who the maker was, when it was made, and who the owner was.



I took some more photos. I hope the writing on the bags are clear
The bottom bags correlate with the top points

 

Wish I was close to you so I could see those up close! I think the green object from Carroll Co Ill would have been related to Cahokia. If you do not know about Cahokia read about it.

There are some lovely points there, some in gemstone type rock that won't have a mineral patina like the chert material.

First grouping looks spot on as well I believe as the second. I have one I found in the same material as the red one on the lower right in the second grouping. It may have a chip but can't tell from this side. The blue is outstanding. The tribes traded these materials so you find stuff made of material not from the area frequently. I don't find a lot in these quality of stones here but they come up occasionally. I caught the bug from an old man who plowed the fields with a mule as a kid and had a room full of fantastic stuff he found walking behind that plow. The area he hunted was not as nearly as productive when I started and they have went to a no till method on the farms there now and ruined it as the dirt is never turned to bring new stuff up.

The one marked museum quality bugs me as I have some of that same quality chert which show more patination from mineral content but it could very well be right. The flaked piece broken of the tip will affect the value.

I would never have disturbed a burial but there were a lot less scrupulous people for sure and the best stuff comes from those. I have heard a hair raising account of a burial excavation from an old timer that made the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Bad juju....

I suspect your points bagged with the locations are legit. The gorgets and pipes are outside my area of hands on knowledge and I won't venture a guess. Again, wish I could come over and play!!!!!

 

I finally found someone close who is going to look at them, no charge!

He said if we come to him (40 minute drive) we can get multiple people to look at them..
If he comes to us it'll be just him..

I'm so curious.
This is something I have no idea about, but really enjoy