Couple of brass trays...where from?

First one is 13" in diameter. Weighs 18 ounces. "Pie crust" edges. Decoration includes ...intertwined cranes?

Second one is 10" in diameter - weighs 15 ounces. No animals or figures depicted on this one...just the pattern. Has some interesting swirly patina on the back. I think it had a hook or something to hang it on the wall welded to the back that has at some point broken off. Also has a mark on the back (pictured).

Are these middle eastern ...or perhaps Indian? Other? Ideas on age?

~

 

Sorry Aaron,
I thought I was a genius because I noticed the swans and hadn't read your full description! Ha! Foiled again! Good luck, I'm sure someone will find it.

 

The mark looks like a bird.
The 1st ...looks like a serving tray.....the 2nd...more of a wall hanger.

Maybe it's time to dig mine out too...

I'm not expert enough to date or place them....other than to say the 1st looks older than the 2nd.....& made for use.

 

Agree about the mark looking like a bird - and everything else.

 

Would Moroccan also be a possiblity? ....

 

could be...i've seen several with that heavy scalloped pie crust edging...

 

I'm done for tonight, but I looked through "old copper.org" with no luck, just so no one does the same thing.

 

I have a sneaking suspicion the crane tray is Alevite.
The Alevite are a syncretic Muslim group. Syncretic means they incorporate concepts and believes from different religions. It is also seen as a Sufi (mystic) branch of Shia Islam, but they only share some ideas with Shia. Most Alevites live in Turkey.
Alevism has elements of ancient Tengrism, a form of Shamanism practised in Central Asia, Turkey, and parts of Eastern Europe. Crane symbolism is one of those elements.
They have ritual dances called Semah, that are based on the graceful dance of the crane. The dances are performed by both men and women, gender equality is one of the principles of Alevism, based on the teachings of Muhammad.
The famous trance dance of the Turkish Whirling Dervishes is inspired by the traditional Alevite Semah.
So a Turkish looking tray, a whirling crane motif, could be Alevite.

 

Great Insight AJ...many thanks once again!

 

Yes, very interesting. Thanks for Aleviting my knowledge!

 

Oops, just noticed, believes should be beliefs of course.

Anytime your knowledge needs Aleviting, just ask.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-...c-Large-Brass-Healing-Bowl-A003-/123000719749

Hi Aaron, this is a longshot, but it’s impossible for me to judge. See if this mark somehow lines up to yours assuming a lot has been worn off. Thank you

 

It is certainly very closely related. And Turkish, which doesn't surprise me.

The tray also looks Turkish to me, and if Alevite, it is pretty rare.

 

I was just trying to follow your clues from above. It’s difficult to overlap these marks in your mind to know. I don’t have a book on international marks for brass. Maybe if it seems to match (somewhat) that’s somewhere to try to get a reference.

 

It does look like a match to me ( the one in the ebay link you posted vs the mark on tray number 2 above - not the possibly alevite one, but the second one). Thank you!

 

I don’t know what that mark is, but maybe someone here will. Yes, I would love to know what you can find about the other one, it’s beautiful.

 

This one was stylistically very similar. Also had no markings. Maybe someone knows about letter/symbol in center.

 

It looks like the name of Allah, morphed into a crane, which could make it Alevite again. Allah in Arabic is الله
Arabic calligraphy is a true art form, and calligraphed words can be very difficult to recognize.

 

I had two trays with Arabic calligraphy interpreted/read by Muslims, an Imam in one case and a professor in another. The threads from a couple years may still exist, dunno, but I started by taking one to a local mosque.

 

One of the old threads; didn’t find other one yet

https://www.antiquers.com/threads/turkish-brass-table-depicts-what-legend.8012/