Couple glass patterns need help identifying

These aren't cut crystal, but I think they are crystal.

Both have weight behind them, especially the pitcher!

After hours searching last night I just can't find the patterns..

 

Haven't a clue, but excellent photo's.

 

they surely have me feeling inept..............

 

Thanks! Clear glass is not easy

 

I believe they ARE cut. the glass is colorless, in the US of A that is called crystal. Cut patterns are elusive, not the subject of most glass literature.

 

The edges aren't as sharp as some cut crystal I've come across?

 

If cut probably fire polished which can reduce sharp edges. Looks eastern europe to me and likely a combination of mold with enough cutting to claim the better import tariff.